Growth Opportunities and The Art of Self-Delusion with Brent Perkins

Kasim: 00:00:11

Scott, I'm here with the day, the Google news.

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And today we're not talking

about Google at all.

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We're talking about growth

opportunities, the worst size

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a company could possibly be.

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And the art of self delusion here

with my buddy, Brent Perkins, Brent.

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I appreciate being here, man.

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Yeah, I'm happy to be here.

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Thanks.

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Yeah.

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You're one of my favorite people

that I met at front road dads.

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Or you were until I met you in person

and found that you were taller than me.

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Yeah, it was an obnoxious

thing for you to do.

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I don't know.

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It's so funny, man.

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you don't spend a lot of time

when you're I'm six, four.

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And so I just don't spend time

around people that are taller.

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And it's so jarring.

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And it reminds me like how people

must feel when they're around me.

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It's just, have this visceral, like,

you think you're better than me?

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Is that what's happening?

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Yeah.

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Sometimes.

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No, it's humbling, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I don't, I can't imagine how often

you run into it, given that you're.

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Just standard deviation above.

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Not what we're here to talk about.

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You wrote a book.

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I did.

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You wrote a book called Paper Cuts,

which by the way, I'm just going to

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share my screen because it's probably

the best book cover I think I've

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ever seen from a self published book.

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And that's usually my big pet peeve.

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I've self published both my

books and my covers are garbage,

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but this is like, who did this?

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Did you really?

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Yeah, I did it in mid journey

when that was all a big big,

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big thing back in January.

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I was playing around and that came

out and I was like I'm keeping this.

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Yeah.

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That's phenomenal.

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I love that you did that in

mid journey too, because now

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everybody listening or watching

is going to fall in love with you.

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What an amazing tool that is, but

I think it's, really compelling.

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That's the type of thing that

would make me stop scrolling.

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Why is it called the art of self delusion?

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What about self delusion are we

specifically speaking towards here?

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Yeah.

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So really this book's about the choice we

don't step into daily maybe even higher

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level would be perspective, Shifting your

perspectives, which to do that, you're

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shifting, you're stepping into choice and

the delusion parts, of course, a little

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bit of play on words to have fun with

the book, but I really built a construct

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that shows inside of the book where.

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playing off of Einstein's that really

this world is an illusion, his statement

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he made that our interpretation of the

illusion is a delusion because, you

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might walk away, for instance, from this

podcast and maybe I was having a bad day

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and you're like, man, Brent sucked today.

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And then you talk to me and

you're like, Oh, you know what?

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I didn't see it.

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He didn't suck.

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He was just a melancholy because

of this happened and this happened

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and you shift your truth, right?

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Because truth is yours.

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And my truth is mine.

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I argue they're delusions

because we can alter them.

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We can shift them.

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We can change perspective.

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We can tweak them.

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So they're not real because

we can choose a different one.

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But if truth isn't real, it puts us

in a position of, and I'm going to

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accelerate logical sequence that's

going through my mind to the end

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result, which I think is nihilism.

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It's like, why am I not just running

around stealing whatever I want, treating

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people however, you know what I mean?

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Like, cause there's no truth.

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I can make it what I wanted.

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So where's the objective

principle based the confines

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within which I have to operate.

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Yeah, I guess, you need to start

from the basis that love is the

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underwriting energy to everything.

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So there is a core truth.

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There's like the objective truth

and then our delusion sit on

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top of whatever that might be.

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What I'm speaking to is

our interpretations of

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our experiences on Earth.

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I only can experience earth

time through my five senses.

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And the way I smell and like, if you and

I are drinking the same glass of wine

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and eating the same piece of chicken,

they taste and smell different to each

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other than they, I mean, there isn't a

truth about how they taste and smell.

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It just is through our own version of it.

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It's our interpretation of what that is.

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And those are our truths because

the truth is a fact and a belief.

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kind of blended together.

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Oh, I like that.

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A truth is a fact and a

belief blended together.

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How interesting.

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That's such an indictment.

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You know what I mean?

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Like it, you start to see

where truth becomes porous.

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So what does that mean then?

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Like, are we, do we need to walk

through life questioning everything we

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believe, or is there, is there a power

to this or is it a cautionary tale?

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No, it's, power because yes, curiosity

is arguably the best thing you

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could walk through life with because

there's nothing that's absolute.

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You walk outside and you can choose to

have on brown glasses, blue glasses,

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red glasses, you get to choose what

your lens is and none of them are wrong.

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How do you want to show up?

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And if you don't like it, if it's not

working, you change it, just shift it.

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It's always choice.

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So it's super empowering.

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I mean, you take it to one, you

swing the pendulum one direction and

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you start to get into manifestation

and that we create everything.

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But you swing it the other direction

and you get into straight victimhood.

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This book, the goal of it is to

pull people out of victimhood,

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that anything is possible.

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You just got to choose.

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You got to choose your perspective,

choose how you show up, choose

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what you want to believe.

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I really love that.

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And I think that the

whole concept of life.

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predicated on and by

choice is so empowering.

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It's also repellent.

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I think it's a really easy

thing to be very afraid of.

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And we, kind of sell victimhood.

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Now I saw this really interesting meme.

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it was so poignant.

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You know, those memes that capture you

and you're just like, God, whoever built

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this is just won the internet today.

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But it said something to the effect

of like in the twenties, we worshiped

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the party goer in the thirties.

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We worship the financier in the forties.

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We worship the soldier in the fifties.

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We worshiped the father in the

sixties was the rebel in the

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seventies was the lover in the eight.

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And I'm making these up, but

every decade was marked by, and

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then now we worship the victim.

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a contest.

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It's like who can out

victim the other person.

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And I don't know that I see

a, direct line of sight out

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of that, but maybe this is it.

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Maybe it's guys like you

writing books like this.

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I don't know the answer to that, Qasim.

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I see with my kids and social media.

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Yeah.

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So easy for them to get into victimhood.

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Or to, really, and part of that's

just a mental model where we're

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comparing ourselves, right?

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oh, I don't have what they have.

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Oh, I don't look like she or he looks on

like, I'm not traveling to where they are.

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We're in our own victimhood storyline.

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And choice says.

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No, no, I choose different.

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I choose not to sit in that place.

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I choose to not believe what I'm seeing

that they're putting on social media

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is the end all be all of everything.

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It's not real.

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Yeah, I love that, that like what you've

posited here is victimhood is rooted

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in comparison, which I've not thought

about, but that feels sound to me.

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That's what I see my kids struggle with.

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Yeah, dude, it's, I,

man, I struggle with it.

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I, I, I will default into victimhood if

I'm not, I probably do it all the time.

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And I don't even realize it,

but if I'm not careful, it's

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just such an easy place to sit.

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So, this is definitely the

most esoteric conversation

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we've ever had on this channel.

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Help me bring it down to, you're talking

to a bunch of entrepreneurs and marketers.

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Yep.

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Help them take this information

and then use it to make money.

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So this can go in a lot of directions,

but I mean, marketing's my background.

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I've started a bunch of companies.

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I spent 20 years, you know

running businesses with a, you

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know, marketing angle on it.

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You know, the last company we took

from ground up started, they had 50

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engineers and no marketing salespeople.

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That's why they, brought me into, tell

their story, build a brand around it.

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So really, I think.

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You know, for the marketing angle,

it's about how do we, how do

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we tell the story in a way that

doesn't step into victimhood, which

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everybody else, is capitalizing on.

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It's not the long tail battle, right?

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Victimhood is a short, quick

dopamine hit that you're going

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to get something fast with.

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If we move back into empowering

people, which is what choice

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is, it's about being empowered.

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And if we can tell our stories about our

products and our offerings in that way.

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Now we have long tail marketing again,

which is part of what I feel like we've

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stepped out of in the last 10 years.

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No, you're absolutely right.

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Everything's been a hundred percent

just like impulse by it's on both

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levels to what we sell the end consumer,

but what also marketers sell the

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business, the thing that I'm giving

you, isn't there is no long tail to it.

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It's just right now it's, it's

the sweets without the nutrition

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and marketing is storytelling.

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what do you do though, if you're the

only market or playing by the rules?

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So I'm the only market or not

falling into the victimhood

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background narrative timeline.

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And.

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Because I'm not using the clickbait, BS,

I get left behind in the short term, how

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do we buttress that person's resolve?

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It's like being the only guy

at the gym, not juicing, or the

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only kid in class, not cheating.

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It is and it isn't.

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You know, you and I were talking about

this earlier, which is curiosity.

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Curiosity doesn't play a role anymore.

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I don't, I go back to my kids because

they're the ones on TikTok all the time.

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it's less me than them, but.

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They're not asking other people

questions about the other people.

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It's always just about what can I do?

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Well, it's so selfish.

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So starting to get curious, people

want to talk about themselves.

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If we can start to ask questions

in the right way and get curious

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about other people, let their

stories come through in our own

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stories, that's still not happening.

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We're just pushing stories on

people saying, this is my story.

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You know, it should be appealing to you.

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It is appealing to you.

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Now go, go figure out how to

duplicate it in your own way

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versus, hey, what's your story?

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Let's get back to what's unique about you.

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And let's ask more questions.

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We're not asking enough questions.

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So there's, there's a way to

capitalize on the dopamine hit.

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But do it through

curiosity, just showing up.

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It's being present without

being selfishly present.

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I'm turning the lens around

on the, the, the narrative.

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I really like that too, which is

instead of telling you about my quick

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hitter story, I turn it around and

try to figure out what about you?

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Cause that's what everybody

wants to talk about, right?

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Like that's, that's, we go

back to Dale Carnegie now.

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And people are most interested in

themselves, and I don't think I lost

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on try to figuring out how to use these

platforms, and we know enough about

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them now it's time to go back to some

of the old school basics that works,

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but using the new school platforms.

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Yeah, there's, there's a lot of.

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Bill Gates has that quote automation

applied to an inefficient system

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just amplifies the inefficiency.

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And I think the echo chamber

that is the social media model

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has amplified the wrong message.

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And we all know it, but we're

on this runaway train and we

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can't, we have yet to stop it.

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And then here we are.

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So somebody wanted to read this book.

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It's not launched yet, right?

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We're in pre launch phase.

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It goes live August 10th, August 10th.

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And they can get an

ebook, soft copy audio.

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And you're doing the audio yourself.

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Yeah, which is great.

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I love it when authors read their own

work and then you especially because just

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because you're so fired up about this

I think that'd be, really cool to hear.

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And it's called paper cuts,

the art of self delusion.

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It's by Brent Perkins so August

10, make sure to you can pre order

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the book right now on Amazon.

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you can pre order the book.

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From your website, you can

on Amazon or you can just go

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follow along@papercutssuck.com.

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I love that.

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Paper cuts suck.com.

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And then you also do you do some

consulting ad hoc, right, Brett?

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I do, kind of find that sweet spot in

the five to $20 million companies that

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that have maybe grown too quickly or

They've been to product focused or been

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to something focused need a kind of a

holistic look to see how do we how do

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we keep the wheels on in a, healthy way.

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So, and you've been the CEO of

two eight figure businesses that

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look like nine figure businesses

because you're a marketer which is

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exactly what people should be doing.

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And we were talking about this

before we hit record, but that, that.

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That five to 10, I think into 20 million.

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I've always felt like when I watch

those organizations, they start to

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kind of hit their stride, but that five

to 10 is such an abysmal place to be.

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It's the worst size.

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You have all the big problems.

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Without any of the big solutions yet.

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Yeah.

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Can't really afford to invest big

money into, into anything that really

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works from a systemization standpoint.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Well, and you're always lopsided too.

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You're usually really good at one

thing, you know, be it the product

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or the fulfillment or the sales, but

then everything else kind of sucks.

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Generally, I think, and tell me if this

has been your experience is because you're

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built around one, person, one wizard.

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I would say in general, that's, true.

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And that wizard is usually a

really good one trick pony.

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Yeah.

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That's funny.

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So my agency solutions eight, I think

we're the best Google ads in the world,

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but it's only because my business partner

is the best Google ads guy in the world.

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And now we've hired really well.

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I've got a phenomenal team, but you

know, that's, I think we'd be really

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well defined as a one trick pony.

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And we got, you know, we're sub 10

million gross revenue, but approaching.

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And I don't think we could get

to 20 just running Google Ads, or

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maybe that's a limiting belief.

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I think we'd have to branch out to

other channels or, you know, go a

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little deeper on the, customer journey.

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So where do you start

with a business like that?

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Like, you're my consultant.

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I hired you today.

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Where do we begin?

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Start with people.

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It always starts with people.

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Do you have the right

people in the right places?

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So the first, that's the first

way you can sink your ship.

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You're either overspending

or you're underspending or

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you're not empowering them.

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That's, that's your

biggest asset right there.

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Yeah.

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Do you do those personality profiles?

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You know, I've done a lot of them.

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The one, if there is one, my favorite

is the culture index because it

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it gets out of just personality.

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It starts to get into kind of innately.

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How do you show up and then how do

you modify your, it's behavior based.

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So what behavior do you

show up with at work?

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And what behavior do you show up

with innately in life and how are you

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modifying your behavior to show up at

work and then it shows kind of do you

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have the fortitude or the energy bank to

be able to modify what you need to do?

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So, for instance, I

suck at details, right?

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I am a hard charging, hit the gas,

get shit done type of guy from

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like a I can think five years out.

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I can see the big picture, but

you want me to go fill out forms

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and do details and I'm horrible.

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: 00:13:27

But at work, I know I have

to do some of that stuff.

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: 00:13:31

So like my profile at work shows

that I can get details done to

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: 00:13:34

like call it a 30 percent level.

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: 00:13:37

But it's enough.

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: 00:13:37

It's enough for me to get the job done,

but on my profile, like my natural

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: 00:13:41

profile, I'm 0 percent that's interesting.

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: 00:13:44

Those behavioral pieces are what I

always want to know, because I want to

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: 00:13:47

know, hey, what's easy for somebody?

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: 00:13:49

What's natural?

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: 00:13:49

How do they show up in a way

where it's like, this feels great.

336

: 00:13:53

I love coming to work because it's just

easy versus Oh, it's so I'm pulling teeth.

337

: 00:13:57

I'm like, I don't, I can't wait.

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: 00:13:58

It's five o'clock.

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: 00:13:59

Cool.

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: 00:13:59

I'm out.

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: 00:14:00

we don't want that.

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: 00:14:01

I think we did.

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: 00:14:01

I'm looking at culture index now.

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: 00:14:02

I don't remember if this was it I've done

five or six in my entrepreneurial career,

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: 00:14:06

where you bring in the consultant, you

pay them a whole bunch of money, and

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: 00:14:08

then they go test everybody and they come

back and they have the recommendations.

347

: 00:14:11

I remember one gentleman in

particular, who was great at this.

348

: 00:14:15

He tested my entire team and I had

one young lady who worked for me.

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: 00:14:19

He was the worst employee I've

ever had in my entire life.

350

: 00:14:21

And I thought it was me or because

she on paper looked so good.

351

: 00:14:25

She came from a really

trusted referral source.

352

: 00:14:28

It was a niche specific need.

353

: 00:14:30

I'm trying to veil her identity here.

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: 00:14:32

, and I had nobody else.

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: 00:14:33

And so I was desperate to make her work.

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: 00:14:35

And so in my mind, I was like, it's me,

it's the situation, it's this, it's that.

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: 00:14:39

And then he went and he did, I

don't know if it was culture index

358

: 00:14:41

or not, but tested everybody.

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: 00:14:42

And he came back and he

said, you know, who is Sally?

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: 00:14:46

And I'm like, why do you ask?

361

: 00:14:47

And he's like, cause she

does not belong Here at all.

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: 00:14:51

And he was able to just

spot it like instantly.

363

: 00:14:54

And that was so empowering to hear

and to feel like, Oh, thank God.

364

: 00:15:01

Yeah.

365

: 00:15:02

But it's hard when you're

inside of it to know that.

366

: 00:15:04

Yeah.

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: 00:15:04

I mean, what's interesting too, is,

is those employees, they may be lying

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: 00:15:07

to themselves, but they know too,

something empowering about sitting

369

: 00:15:12

down, you know, and I imagine you do

this because I know you want to know

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: 00:15:14

you're just a great, a great guy and

a great manager, a great boss, but

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: 00:15:18

to be able to tell somebody, Hey.

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: 00:15:20

You're amazing at this

piece, whatever it is.

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: 00:15:24

We don't have that here.

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: 00:15:26

I need to help you find this

because when you land in this,

375

: 00:15:30

you're going to love life.

376

: 00:15:30

You're going to love showing, you're

going to love waking up, putting your

377

: 00:15:33

clothes on and going to work every day.

378

: 00:15:34

I imagine you don't.

379

: 00:15:36

And I don't want that for you.

380

: 00:15:37

And I don't want that for me.

381

: 00:15:40

Yeah.

382

: 00:15:41

I'm going to go back and listen

to this recording because

383

: 00:15:43

it was really well stated.

384

: 00:15:44

I don't know that I am good at

those conversations anymore.

385

: 00:15:46

I think I used to be.

386

: 00:15:49

I got a little jaded Brent,

so I need to come back to the

387

: 00:15:51

empathy that you just gave me.

388

: 00:15:53

Where can people connect with you?

389

: 00:15:55

Really paper cuts suck, gets

you into that's your sandpit.

390

: 00:15:58

Yeah.

391

: 00:15:58

That's my sandpit.

392

: 00:15:59

That'll launch you into wherever

we're lots of other things.

393

: 00:16:02

So it's a great place to start.

394

: 00:16:04

You know, I realized the paper

cuts book is, a little esoteric,

395

: 00:16:08

but what, what it can do mostly.

396

: 00:16:11

I mean, speaking from, I wrote it

for myself, you know, ex CEO who will

397

: 00:16:15

probably be a CEO again, one day, how

do you show up your best in a way where

398

: 00:16:19

you trust yourself so you don't have

to question decisions you're making?

399

: 00:16:23

Like, that's what the power of this

book is, is how do you step into choice

400

: 00:16:26

and integrity and learn how to love

and trust you because then you show up

401

: 00:16:32

for your business in a way that you've,

you've probably never showed up before.

402

: 00:16:36

I really love that.

403

: 00:16:38

I love the esoteric conversations too.

404

: 00:16:39

I want to have more of these because.

405

: 00:16:42

You know, it's the difference in,

I just shot a video on this and

406

: 00:16:44

nobody watched it, which made me mad.

407

: 00:16:45

But, are you familiar with Stephen Covey's

Personality Ethic versus Character Ethic?

408

: 00:16:49

Yeah.

409

: 00:16:49

So, this is Character Ethic discussion.

410

: 00:16:51

All the other videos I shoot are

Personality Ethic discussion, but

411

: 00:16:54

that's what people want to watch.

412

: 00:16:55

This is what I want to talk about.

413

: 00:16:56

So, I'm going to go figure

out how to slowly evolve.

414

: 00:17:01

The conversation Brant, I

appreciate you being here, man.

415

: 00:17:04

I appreciate you just being every time we

connect, I take something away from that.

416

: 00:17:08

That's not pandering by the way.

417

: 00:17:09

I really mean it every time you're on a

call, even when you're quiet, like you'll

418

: 00:17:13

pipe up and say one thing and I'll be

like, well, that made the call for me.

419

: 00:17:16

So.

420

: 00:17:17

That's my feedback for you today.

421

: 00:17:19

If you're watching or

listening, go to papercutssuck.

422

: 00:17:22

com Pre order the e book.

423

: 00:17:24

If you catch this after August 10th, you

can buy the e book, the print version.

424

: 00:17:28

I buy print of everything, by the way,

because I like writing in books now.

425

: 00:17:31

Which I know is sacrilegious,

but it helps with my retention.

426

: 00:17:34

You can listen listen to our boy

Brent Perkins support an author.

427

: 00:17:38

If you want some consulting, it

sounds like he's an assassin.

428

: 00:17:41

And I imagine they can connect

with you by going to 3xbold.

429

: 00:17:44

com.

430

: 00:17:44

The number, the paper cuts suck there too.

431

: 00:17:47

Yeah.

432

: 00:17:47

Okay.

433

: 00:17:49

All roads lead back to paper cuts up.

434

: 00:17:51

Cool.

435

: 00:17:52

I shoot a video every day.

436

: 00:17:53

Like comment, subscribe.

437

: 00:17:54

I love y'all.

438

: 00:17:55

I'll talk to you later.

439

: 00:17:56

Peace.