Why YouTube Remarketing Is Better Than Display Remarketing

Jon: 00:00:11

We could talk about frequency capping if you want.

Jon: 00:00:13

Maybe that'd be a good topic to cover.

Jon: 00:00:15

Ooh, not for me.

Jon: 00:00:16

I don't use frequency capping at all.

Jon: 00:00:18

. Okay.

Jon: 00:00:19

Nevermind.

Jon: 00:00:20

. Well, actually that might be a good topic for conversation, Caden.

Jon: 00:00:22

My theory in frequency capping is, The automated bidding strategy does that for

Jon: 00:00:28

me, in my opinion maximize conversions is what I like to use the most.

Jon: 00:00:31

And I usually like to use a daily ad spend in order to control overspend

Jon: 00:00:35

and underspend based on results that I see both in Google Ads and outside

Jon: 00:00:38

Google Ads, whether it's analytics or whether it's npy, whatever it may be.

Jon: 00:00:41

My thought process there is that.

Jon: 00:00:43

Just a level of remarketing ad spend.

Jon: 00:00:46

But I leave frequency captain running wide open.

Jon: 00:00:49

Because there's been a lot of use cases that I've heard, and they're

Jon: 00:00:54

anecdotal, but I forgot about this person that I think it was

Jon: 00:00:57

like Googler, Facebook, whatever.

Jon: 00:00:58

They're like, I just kept seeing their ass, the internet, and they

Jon: 00:01:00

finally wore me down and I bought one.

Jon: 00:01:01

I don't even know why I bought one.

Jon: 00:01:02

I just kept seeing them.

Jon: 00:01:03

I think there is a, use case for that, but I also think that there is

Jon: 00:01:08

some channels that you can sort of use that may be better than Google.

Jon: 00:01:12

I don't like Google remarketing on display.

Jon: 00:01:15

I really don't.

Jon: 00:01:16

I know it works, but I find.

Jon: 00:01:18

More engagement on the YouTube remarketing channel.

Jon: 00:01:21

And that's actually what I'll be talking about too, is I know uh, Osama,

Jon: 00:01:24

you had a, question about YouTube and how you measured that, so we're

Jon: 00:01:26

gonna get to that as well today.

Jon: 00:01:27

But for remarketing, I think YouTube remarketing gives me a

Jon: 00:01:30

better result that I can measure, even if they're not in nor Beam.

Jon: 00:01:33

I'll go to a client.

Jon: 00:01:34

That makes a use case for YouTube remarketing.

Jon: 00:01:37

But Caden, do you have any kind of before or after what your thoughts

Jon: 00:01:39

are on setting frequency caps for display or YouTube or whatever it is?

Jon: 00:01:43

For remarketing?

Jon: 00:01:44

I guess the point there was just to try to leverage more on like the email

Jon: 00:01:47

marketing side and only use it as sort of like a slow burn where you have like,

Jon: 00:01:50

you see one add a day kind of thing, so you keep the spend low and then.

Jon: 00:01:54

Go from there versus like pumping out a bunch of ads based on the

Jon: 00:01:57

conversion data that you would get and then getting a conversion.

Jon: 00:01:59

But in reality, you could have gotten it from like another channel potentially.

Jon: 00:02:03

That was kind of my original, like, thought behind it.

Jon: 00:02:05

One of my questions I have of frequency capping is Google

Jon: 00:02:07

measures an impression, differently impression a viewable impression

Jon: 00:02:11

are two different things to Google.

Jon: 00:02:13

I wonder how that translates Into actual metrics.

Jon: 00:02:16

for example viewable impression versus impression if you have a frequency cap,

Jon: 00:02:20

I thought that went off impression.

Jon: 00:02:21

And if so, there's could be some times where you're showing up at the bottom

Jon: 00:02:24

of the page on cnn.com and people aren't seeing it, but you got an impression.

Jon: 00:02:27

It wasn't a viewable impression, it was an impression.

Jon: 00:02:30

So that'd be something for us to actually look at too, is is

Jon: 00:02:33

there a viewable impression?

Jon: 00:02:34

What's the difference?

Jon: 00:02:35

Strain impression and viewable impression now that's visible

Jon: 00:02:37

for more than three seconds.

Jon: 00:02:38

In the person's view, in the window that they're viewing, viewable is

Jon: 00:02:42

visible for more than three seconds.

Jon: 00:02:44

Got it.

Jon: 00:02:44

And it doesn't have the different types of impressions available in

Jon: 00:02:47

the settings for impression caps.

Jon: 00:02:49

Yeah.

Jon: 00:02:49

It's almost like on YouTube when it's like, Hey, you got 17,000 impress.

Jon: 00:02:54

now the people that watched it for longer than five seconds, so those are 5,000.

Jon: 00:02:58

a person watches 30 seconds or video if their duration is shorter, the 30 seconds

Jon: 00:03:01

or interacts with your video eligible interactions, they measure by 10 seconds.

Jon: 00:03:04

So what I'm wondering is, How much of that, when you do a frequency

Jon: 00:03:08

cap is like, Hey, we're gonna show it to one person, even if they

Jon: 00:03:10

didn't have a viewable impression.

Jon: 00:03:12

I don't know.

Jon: 00:03:12

it's a good kind of good question to ask.

Jon: 00:03:14

I don't know what that is.

Jon: 00:03:15

I have no idea.

Jon: 00:03:15

But to find that out.

Jon: 00:03:16

Here's what I'd like about the remarketing aspect though.

Jon: 00:03:18

In display remarketing, I find that with the loss of being able to target specific

Jon: 00:03:24

audiences, Or when the audiences are just not matched or not used very well.

Jon: 00:03:30

Like we have a one client that is predominantly women and we have a product

Jon: 00:03:34

that is a hair regrowth serum made for women, and 90% of our conversions

Jon: 00:03:37

are coming from the men audience.

Jon: 00:03:39

Client got upset so we had a conversation with 'em.

Jon: 00:03:42

I didn't, it was a member of our team and said, Hey, do you want to target

Jon: 00:03:45

the people that you believe you want to target and cut out 90% of the conversions,

Jon: 00:03:49

or do you wanna just keep it still?

Jon: 00:03:50

I think the client chose does just keep going with it because the

Jon: 00:03:53

audiences are getting a little bit more lackluster in the future.

Jon: 00:03:55

When we look at the audience targeting and, expansion opportunities and,

Jon: 00:03:59

audiences that are not in the segments that you've defined and all the

Jon: 00:04:02

ways that Google is just gonna spend your money without you even knowing.

Jon: 00:04:05

The one reason why I do like YouTube is I can measure not only An impression,

Jon: 00:04:08

but I also can see the view, the view rate, the click the rate, and

Jon: 00:04:12

then the conversions that happened here, which is the ad event type.

Jon: 00:04:15

So I think I get more data from a YouTube remarketing campaign than I would with a.

Jon: 00:04:21

Display campaign because display can count view through conversions.

Jon: 00:04:24

It just never does.

Jon: 00:04:25

I don't know why It's like, Hey, you got 12 sales, but

Jon: 00:04:28

your view through is like 15.

Jon: 00:04:30

For some reason, Google has done a poor job, I view through conversions, but if

Jon: 00:04:33

you look here, for example, the YouTube remarketing, I have three click convers.

Jon: 00:04:38

And 50 engaged view conversions, I'm scaling this up with just

Jon: 00:04:43

standard chopping campaigns.

Jon: 00:04:44

You'll notice that my splits though are 20 grand in cost on standard chopping,

Jon: 00:04:49

and $600 in cost in video remarketing.

Jon: 00:04:52

Very, very, very skewed heavily towards non-brand cold traffic.

Jon: 00:04:55

And then the YouTube shorts is also.

Jon: 00:04:58

Cold traffic audience.

Jon: 00:04:59

This, I'm not worried about attribution here because YouTube

Jon: 00:05:02

does a poor job at attribution.

Jon: 00:05:03

My remarketing, I should have more frequent conversions because those

Jon: 00:05:06

frequent conversions are of a very warm audience that's naturally

Jon: 00:05:09

going to get more conversion with a warm audience than a cold audience.

Jon: 00:05:12

And when you say, Hey, I've spent 600 and made 4,000.

Jon: 00:05:15

Yes.

Jon: 00:05:16

Where did they come?

Jon: 00:05:17

this is a remarketing audience that's gonna be more important

Jon: 00:05:20

than, can I scale this?

Jon: 00:05:21

Not really.

Jon: 00:05:22

I mean, you can, increase your ad spending.

Jon: 00:05:24

Google can show the ads more often to people who are going to buy.

Jon: 00:05:27

Does that mean that people are going to buy more often?

Jon: 00:05:30

Maybe.

Jon: 00:05:30

Where's your point of diminishing returns Much lower of a ceiling

Jon: 00:05:33

than the cold traffic that we're.

Jon: 00:05:34

So when we're looking at YouTube remarketing, I know my view

Jon: 00:05:37

rate, I wanna be above 22%.

Jon: 00:05:39

If it's tracked properly and it's doing well, my cost per review is 12 cents.

Jon: 00:05:43

My cost per click.

Jon: 00:05:44

On display, we're probably looking at about 50 cents to a dollar,

Jon: 00:05:48

just depending upon the industry.

Jon: 00:05:49

My cost per click on YouTube remarketing $6.

Jon: 00:05:51

It's expensive.

Jon: 00:05:52

I'm getting good view rates, but people are not engaging with these ads

Jon: 00:05:55

that much from a click perspective.

Jon: 00:05:57

So my cost per click's high.

Jon: 00:05:58

That's okay.

Jon: 00:05:58

What I'm looking at is am I getting enough views the people that are seeing those

Jon: 00:06:02

ads, are they buying, this is my insurance policy here, this is my insurance.

Jon: 00:06:05

This is simply just a additional metric used as a failsafe.

Jon: 00:06:10

If I get.

Jon: 00:06:11

Interested user and through standard shopping, which means

Jon: 00:06:14

they typed in a non-branded search.

Jon: 00:06:16

They saw my product, they saw how much it was and the title that they

Jon: 00:06:20

saw in the title was relevant enough for them to say, that's a reasonable

Jon: 00:06:24

price of a product I'm looking for.

Jon: 00:06:26

And they clicked on it and they went to the website.

Jon: 00:06:27

We know that people are going to either continually search or

Jon: 00:06:30

come back to the brand or go back to the site directly and buy.

Jon: 00:06:33

When I was showing people display ads, it didn't really change much whether

Jon: 00:06:38

I had dynamic marketing on or not.

Jon: 00:06:39

I didn't really see a measurable result outside the normal ebb and flow of Google.

Jon: 00:06:44

And since I can't earn a view through conversion, I had no

Jon: 00:06:48

way of truly measuring it.

Jon: 00:06:50

Is this even hitting the right audience that ends up converting?

Jon: 00:06:52

I had no.

Jon: 00:06:53

people that were clicking on it from really odd places, absent kids games

Jon: 00:06:57

and all the other stuff, or just, out of non-English speaking websites.

Jon: 00:07:00

Even though I had English as my default browser, I mean,

Jon: 00:07:02

things just weren't matching up.

Jon: 00:07:03

It was so fatty that I just couldn't identify click attri conversions

Jon: 00:07:07

no matter the attribution bottle that I was using or even nor Beam.

Jon: 00:07:10

My dynamic or marketing from a click perspective was always a higher c p

Jon: 00:07:14

A than my new customer acquisition.

Jon: 00:07:16

From shopping, even when I'm looking at first click attributed to last

Jon: 00:07:20

click, that's what's interesting is I know it does well, but if I can't take

Jon: 00:07:24

a remarketing campaign and increase its ad spend and see more first time

Jon: 00:07:28

customers, that's my line of demarcation cuz that's all we're measuring.

Jon: 00:07:31

If I can't increase my ad spend and also see an increase in new customer,

Jon: 00:07:36

That's your point of diminishing returns.

Jon: 00:07:38

We are starting to over remarket or you're going after a user who is uninterested and

Jon: 00:07:44

you're begging that's gonna be expensive.

Jon: 00:07:46

Because if you think about begging a person to come back when they're

Jon: 00:07:49

no longer interested is gonna cost a specific dollar amount.

Jon: 00:07:53

What is that dollar amount to beg to bring a person back?

Jon: 00:07:56

This is how much things cost.

Jon: 00:07:58

I'm just gonna use round numbers.

Jon: 00:07:59

It's $6 to bring a person back to the site.

Jon: 00:08:02

Physically in this campaign, it's $2 to bring a new interested person that said,

Jon: 00:08:07

now, yes, I'm interested in this product.

Jon: 00:08:10

I wanna learn more.

Jon: 00:08:11

So it's three times more expensive to bring that person.

Jon: 00:08:14

From a click perspective.

Jon: 00:08:15

So if my conversion rate, when all things are said and done of each channel's

Jon: 00:08:20

click is going to dictate what the CPA is going to be and is also going to

Jon: 00:08:24

dictate the conversion cost and CAC cost.

Jon: 00:08:27

If I spend six, let's just say I spend $8 for me, that $8 at $2 a

Jon: 00:08:32

click is gonna bring me four new interested people who are, hot ready.

Jon: 00:08:35

Or I can bring one person back to the site through a remarking campaign.

Jon: 00:08:41

Yes, there is good visual representation of our products that are being

Jon: 00:08:45

shown to people who have purchased or who are being shown to people

Jon: 00:08:49

who are going to purchase here.

Jon: 00:08:51

This is good.

Jon: 00:08:51

This is not an indicator at how good this YouTube remarketing campaign's.

Jon: 00:08:56

This metric here is more of an indicator on how good this campaign is doing.

Jon: 00:09:02

Think about this.

Jon: 00:09:03

These are engaged view conversions.

Jon: 00:09:05

What does this.

Jon: 00:09:06

It means that I've taken a very interested person here and confirmed that they're

Jon: 00:09:13

probably either A going to buy anyway.

Jon: 00:09:14

And when Google does show these ads to these people, I get 95

Jon: 00:09:19

essentially clicks for two.

Jon: 00:09:20

That's good conversion, right?

Jon: 00:09:21

That's a 3% on remarketing.

Jon: 00:09:23

Good.

Jon: 00:09:23

That's fine.

Jon: 00:09:24

But I also don't even get click conversions on 50 people.

Jon: 00:09:27

So what we're looking at here is how much is remarketing helping?

Jon: 00:09:30

There's certain indicators you can look at to know that remarketing is helping, that

Jon: 00:09:34

better indicators are coming from YouTube.

Jon: 00:09:37

Well, you have engaged view conversions that you don't

Jon: 00:09:39

have a display that's helpful.

Jon: 00:09:40

You also have a captive audience that you know is just wasting time.

Jon: 00:09:43

That's good.

Jon: 00:09:44

When a person's on YouTube, it's either they're listening to music

Jon: 00:09:48

or they're watching videos, or maybe they're trying to make their purchase

Jon: 00:09:51

decision now by looking up, solutions eight reviews solutions, eight scam,

Jon: 00:09:54

you know, solutions eight, you know, additional video, whatever it may be.

Jon: 00:09:57

If someone's doing, let's just say a search for us, or search for Google Ads

Jon: 00:10:01

agencies, best Google Ads agencies, and we can continually stay in front of them,

Jon: 00:10:05

we will reinforce that purchase decision.

Jon: 00:10:07

I don't wanna spend too much on that.

Jon: 00:10:09

Because you will hit a point of diminishing returns because most of the

Jon: 00:10:11

time it's more expensive to bring a person back than it is to get a new person.

Jon: 00:10:15

And it's more expensive to bring a person back if these

Jon: 00:10:18

people are halfway interested.

Jon: 00:10:20

So, any questions so far?

Jon: 00:10:22

I think we have a couple chats.

Jon: 00:10:23

I just wanted to see John, you talk about why you, generally

Jon: 00:10:25

prefer not to use your marketing.

Jon: 00:10:26

Yep.

Jon: 00:10:27

So it's not that necessarily I prefer not to.

Jon: 00:10:30

Tim, one of the things that I was actually gonna say too and we'll move to it

Jon: 00:10:33

next, is a lot of times you can actually use different networks to remarket.

Jon: 00:10:37

Facebook, for example, does very good at remarketing.

Jon: 00:10:39

Again, it's a captive audience.

Jon: 00:10:41

It remarks like YouTube does display.

Jon: 00:10:44

I'm trying to capture people in a household.

Jon: 00:10:46

that are on the internet, because remember, Google is going to

Jon: 00:10:50

use household remarketing.

Jon: 00:10:51

They're not using individual device remarketing anymore.

Jon: 00:10:54

I saw this this morning and I really, really, really wanna find it.

Jon: 00:10:57

I'm gonna find it again.

Jon: 00:10:58

But there was a metric inside of Google that I saw this morning that

Jon: 00:11:01

says, by the way, in order to measure households with cross devices, we're

Jon: 00:11:05

going to take an average of the users that we believe are the same people.

Jon: 00:11:09

But there will be varying degrees of.

Jon: 00:11:11

Discrepancies, but we're using I forget exactly what they call it,

Jon: 00:11:13

but basically some algorithmic version of what they think happened.

Jon: 00:11:16

So it's actually not even real numbers instead of the

Jon: 00:11:18

remarketing campaign specifically.

Jon: 00:11:20

So unique users are blank a lot of times because it's not, known, for example.

Jon: 00:11:24

But I would say that captive audience remarketing, which means

Jon: 00:11:28

where their attention is given, is more effective than banner ads.

Jon: 00:11:31

That's my opinion.

Jon: 00:11:32

Facebook captive, Instagram captive, YouTube captive websites, they're

Jon: 00:11:38

actively doing something right now.

Jon: 00:11:39

So is it more effective in a visual representation for the user?

Jon: 00:11:44

Yes.

Jon: 00:11:45

I think.

Jon: 00:11:45

I would prefer Facebook over display remarketing.

Jon: 00:11:48

I absolutely would.

Jon: 00:11:50

when you look at the splits and you look at the conversion paths, a lot of

Jon: 00:11:53

times it's cheaper to get a person first click on standard shopping and also

Jon: 00:11:56

cheaper to have Facebook remarket them.

Jon: 00:11:58

And now I have those two channels working together.

Jon: 00:12:01

I prefer other channels than Google for marketing, so that's

Jon: 00:12:04

why I usually don't use your marketing a lot instead of Google.