Why PMax Feed Only Campaign is NOT Part of the Account Build SOP for eCommerce

John: 00:00:11

It's such a selfish network that it actually, there's more cons than p.

John: 00:00:17

In that campaign, cuz you can't scale it.

John: 00:00:19

I'd rather do a full bill pax campaign and die than run a feed only and have

John: 00:00:23

the client ask us questions each week.

John: 00:00:25

Well, well, why that happen?

John: 00:00:26

Let's go.

John: 00:00:28

I don't know.

John: 00:00:29

I've been, that was my fail point there is I, we, I think we didn't do

John: 00:00:32

enough into investigation beforehand.

John: 00:00:36

Yeah.

John: 00:00:36

Just quick point is we're still trying to figure out any other, like, mediums

John: 00:00:40

more so, like, for example, like discovery is something we'll probably

John: 00:00:42

end up adding on here in the future when we have more like clear understanding

John: 00:00:46

of how it would fit into this process.

John: 00:00:48

But Joan, I was also gonna ask too, if you wanted to go more in depth

John: 00:00:50

on why feed only is not on here.

John: 00:00:53

Yeah.

John: 00:00:53

So you'll notice that your feet only is not a thing anymore.

John: 00:00:55

Feet only is good.

John: 00:00:57

It's not a campaign type that we own feed only.

John: 00:00:59

If there was like a darker color than red, it would be feed only.

John: 00:01:02

It is a big, smart shopping campaign that also will capture search.

John: 00:01:09

Even if we don't want it to, it will capture search traffic.

John: 00:01:11

It will fight full PMM X.

John: 00:01:13

It'll fight extensive dsa, it will fight inbound search, especially on broad.

John: 00:01:16

it will any remarketing, whether it be YouTube or display or p main commax.

John: 00:01:22

It's such a selfish network that it actually, there's more cons than pros

John: 00:01:27

in that campaign cuz you can't scale it.

John: 00:01:29

It lives and dies on majority of remarketing and.

John: 00:01:33

It's something that is going to steal even from our main PAX campaign.

John: 00:01:37

if you intimately understand fee only, you can use it well.

John: 00:01:40

I know feed only fairly well for kitch.

John: 00:01:42

It's working extremely well.

John: 00:01:43

It's getting a better volume.

John: 00:01:45

It's actually remarketing the a hundred thousand dollars for the free

John: 00:01:47

ad spend that they get from Facebook.

John: 00:01:49

So I don't need to have a roaz, like there's very specific particular

John: 00:01:52

use cases as to when you should or should not use feed only.

John: 00:01:55

Feed only just saved Larson Jewelers, but I took 10 feed only campaigns.

John: 00:01:59

Pretty much that's what they were doing.

John: 00:02:01

Whittled it down to one.

John: 00:02:02

I said, we're gonna have to rebuild the entire account.

John: 00:02:05

Once those new campaigns are rebuilt, I'm shutting off feed only.

John: 00:02:08

This was just to save on their row and just to not have them die while

John: 00:02:12

they're trying to get onboarded.

John: 00:02:13

feed only is, not something that we should move forward with cuz you can't

John: 00:02:17

control it, can't scale it, and you don't know what's going on and you

John: 00:02:19

don't know where it's gonna go next.

John: 00:02:20

And it still goes everywhere.

John: 00:02:22

So if it only is be essentially being removed just because it's not.

John: 00:02:25

It's a hack and it's a bridge.

John: 00:02:27

it's not a campaign strategy that we're like, aha, now we'll use it this way.

John: 00:02:30

, you don't have any control, you have no signals, you have no assets.

John: 00:02:33

So again, it's the enigma that will go away and it's not something I think that

John: 00:02:37

we should really lean into in the future.

John: 00:02:39

I'd rather do a full Bill Pmax campaign and die than run a feed only and have

John: 00:02:43

the client ask us questions each week.

John: 00:02:45

Well, well why that happened?

John: 00:02:46

Let's go.

John: 00:02:47

Oh.

John: 00:02:48

So I think that's, it is just better bet.

John: 00:02:50

can you give an example when you say, well, why did that happen?

John: 00:02:53

Like, if the client is complaining, why'd that happen?

John: 00:02:56

Just trying to understand what, why did he'd only die of a performance?

John: 00:03:00

Yeah, like, I don't exactly know what you meant by that.

John: 00:03:03

I'm just trying to understand what what are the Negative consequences

John: 00:03:06

of running feed only, like long-term negative consequences of running feed.

John: 00:03:09

Only because that's at sort of BC we have such small budgets and oftentimes

John: 00:03:12

brand new accounts that all we're trying to do is get the client to not

John: 00:03:15

freak out within the first 30 days.

John: 00:03:17

So getting the very bottom of the funnel is like, great.

John: 00:03:20

But then I'm trying to understand the long term Like you were alluding

John: 00:03:24

to some, but I didn't understand.

John: 00:03:26

Yeah.

John: 00:03:26

And so I think that for here, as an example For this client,

John: 00:03:30

feed only makes sense for them.

John: 00:03:31

I'll answer your question.

John: 00:03:33

The why did it happen on feed only?

John: 00:03:35

Those are things that we'll never be able to ask or answer.

John: 00:03:38

and we should not run them if we can't answer them.

John: 00:03:40

So I know if this thing dies off, I'm gonna say, well,

John: 00:03:42

what happened on Facebook?

John: 00:03:43

What happened on Instagram?

John: 00:03:44

And did any products that were in stock selling, well go out of stock?

John: 00:03:48

And I'm not targeting those, products well on other campaigns and those

John: 00:03:51

products that we're targeting, overlapping, or doing better.

John: 00:03:54

Like I can answer all those questions, right.

John: 00:03:56

So feed only.

John: 00:03:57

That's what I'm saying.

John: 00:03:57

When you have a very specific scenario where feed only does fit, you'll

John: 00:04:01

be able to answer why or why not.

John: 00:04:03

The feed only did well or not because you're choosing to run it because

John: 00:04:06

you know what it's exactly going to do For low budget campaigns like

John: 00:04:11

rigidity, your clients here, it does make sense as a starting point.

John: 00:04:14

It doesn't make sense.

John: 00:04:15

It also makes sense though, to run them at the same time as a pmax.

John: 00:04:19

full build out.

John: 00:04:20

the campaigns that you have are, they running other traffic from other sources?

John: 00:04:24

Is it performing well?

John: 00:04:25

What is the time lag of those other on an average, like if you look

John: 00:04:28

through analytics, like do you increase your decrease Facebook?

John: 00:04:31

Yeah, I did.

John: 00:04:31

Okay.

John: 00:04:31

Now I can see a correlation about 20, 30 days later, I want to repeat traffic.

John: 00:04:34

If the people buy 1.2 times versus three times, feed only

John: 00:04:37

will live and die by that.

John: 00:04:38

So there's a lot of use cases as to why you should or should

John: 00:04:41

not run that campaign type.

John: 00:04:43

I'm running this also because I started negating brand out of all the other

John: 00:04:45

Performance Max campaigns and the speed only was doing a good job at

John: 00:04:48

capturing the brand of traffic that I'm spawning from my other campaigns.

John: 00:04:51

And b, capturing remarketing dynamically of other traffic from Facebook.

John: 00:04:55

So that's.

John: 00:04:56

there's a lot of conversions here.

John: 00:04:58

There's 90 on the brand or 20 on the brand, and then 23 then they start to

John: 00:05:01

kind of dwindle down after that, and then you'll see kind of pop up more often.

John: 00:05:04

There's.

John: 00:05:05

Et cetera.

John: 00:05:06

So this campaign will do some cold traffic for sure.

John: 00:05:08

It will do some more traffic for sure.

John: 00:05:10

And it will suck all of the remarketing and even compete

John: 00:05:14

with all these other campaigns.

John: 00:05:15

But what this allows me to do is keep a baseline of knowing

John: 00:05:19

that I'm gonna always spend.

John: 00:05:20

like 4K in the last two days, and I know I'm gonna make 3,200 and I'm gonna

John: 00:05:25

keep an 83% roaz and I'm fine there.

John: 00:05:28

Why?

John: 00:05:29

Because this is dynamically remarketing, a hundred thousand dollars worth of

John: 00:05:33

free traffic from Facebook, and they don't care what the Roaz is here.

John: 00:05:36

It's not their money.

John: 00:05:37

So again, very, very, very specific use case.

John: 00:05:40

Now, over the course of longer term, since this heavy remarketing,

John: 00:05:43

I'll have a hundred and 37 roaz.

John: 00:05:45

So I can spend.

John: 00:05:46

91 to make 1 24 K and I know I need to have above 1.47 and

John: 00:05:51

I'm at 200% of the account fine.

John: 00:05:54

All this did was just tack on additional $124,000 and keep me above a two.

John: 00:05:59

Can I kill that campaign?

John: 00:06:00

Yeah.

John: 00:06:00

What will it go to?

John: 00:06:01

2.2.

John: 00:06:01

What will I lose?

John: 00:06:02

$125,000.

John: 00:06:04

That's not worth it.

John: 00:06:05

Is that gonna come anywhere else?

John: 00:06:07

No idea.

John: 00:06:07

It's free Facebook traffic.

John: 00:06:08

I don't know what's going to do if I don't try to Remark.

John: 00:06:10

So again, it's really, really, really, really, really hyper specific to

John: 00:06:13

use feed only for a specific reason.

John: 00:06:15

But we wanna make sure that if we're going to run it, and if

John: 00:06:17

they say, John, why did that die?

John: 00:06:19

Well, a, it didn't.

John: 00:06:20

I've been monitoring the roaz and making adjustments every two to three days

John: 00:06:23

going down, but this isn't my main focus.

John: 00:06:26

The only change that I've made in this thing since it started it's

John: 00:06:29

just been budgets last 30 days.

John: 00:06:31

I haven't touch.

John: 00:06:32

I've not made one change to it.

John: 00:06:34

There it is not a campaign.

John: 00:06:35

it's a bolt on.

John: 00:06:36

So that's what's interesting is I, we use it very, very seldomly and

John: 00:06:39

very specifically, but I don't think that should be our main reasons.

John: 00:06:43

Sorry, follow up question for all of the accounts, I'm sure at

John: 00:06:47

Solutions eight, where there's a lot of shopping only campaigns and we

John: 00:06:50

wanna try to transition away from it.

John: 00:06:52

What do you think about the idea of adding an asset group only campaign?

John: 00:06:56

For a while and then kind of doing a switch where you turn off the

John: 00:07:00

shopping only campaign and add the feed so that you don't have two sets

John: 00:07:06

of feeds running at the same time.

John: 00:07:08

Like would, do you think that idea might.

John: 00:07:09

I don't know.

John: 00:07:10

It's hard to tell what would happen, I guess.

John: 00:07:12

are you saying like an asset only on a feed?

John: 00:07:13

Only I then combining them, yeah.

John: 00:07:15

Like to try to transition away from shopping only instead of having, a full

John: 00:07:19

buildout asset pmax with feed so that you have two feeds now running side by side.

John: 00:07:23

What do you think about getting the asset group only campaign up and running?

John: 00:07:27

And then like one day making the switch, basically pulling the feed

John: 00:07:30

into the asset group only campaign and shutting off the shopping.

John: 00:07:33

Only the things I would've to see, I'd have to know if that would work

John: 00:07:37

well or not, is there brand search in the non feeded asset only campaign?

John: 00:07:42

If there is, what attribution model are we looking at for the account?

John: 00:07:46

If it's data, Does the model comparison tool show slightly more favorable?

John: 00:07:50

Favorable first clicks, two feed only, and less clicks to asset

John: 00:07:54

group only, or is it vice versa?

John: 00:07:55

That'll tell me if you're getting shopping and then brand or if

John: 00:07:58

you're getting getting inbound.

John: 00:07:59

D s A dynamic or marketing.

John: 00:08:00

that's a possible scenario.

John: 00:08:02

One could be the other very, very easily and vice versa,

John: 00:08:04

or even switch back and forth.

John: 00:08:06

Can you say that last sentence again?

John: 00:08:08

Yeah.

John: 00:08:08

So asset group versus feed only.

John: 00:08:10

If you look at the model comparison tool inside of Google Ads, if you

John: 00:08:13

see that there's more first click coming into one campaign and more last

John: 00:08:16

click coming into the other campaign.

John: 00:08:18

Mm-hmm.

John: 00:08:18

, it could mean that the feed only is gaining a shopping click and the

John: 00:08:23

asset group only is getting a branded conversion after they have that shopping.

John: 00:08:27

if it's flipped, it means that you have people coming in from DSA or

John: 00:08:31

Discovery or YouTube that's getting dynamically remarketed by feed only.

John: 00:08:35

So one could feed the other in both scenarios.

John: 00:08:38

So yes, it will work or no, it won't work . It's just depending.

John: 00:08:42

, yeah.

John: 00:08:43

Hard to know how to transition away.

John: 00:08:45

But yeah.

John: 00:08:46

It's probably gonna be a very common scenario, especially for all

John: 00:08:48

of the starter PPP c clients who are adopted by Solutions Eight, or

John: 00:08:52

should say, graduated two solutions.

John: 00:08:54

You're like a foster parent.

John: 00:08:56

. Caden, you said something about standard shop also works.

John: 00:08:58

Yeah, I was just mentioning that like, just another use case of it would be sort

John: 00:09:02

of like what you're doing for where it's, can't remarket the like other, medium.

John: 00:09:06

So you have to kind of throw it into PAX for it to remarket.

John: 00:09:09

And then also whenever you target an audience on shopping, it tends

John: 00:09:12

to be a lot more expensive and it doesn't expand out of that audience.

John: 00:09:15

So that could be good or bad, but it doesn't function the same exact

John: 00:09:17

way as like a feed only pmax if it were just shopping as well.

John: 00:09:21

Now say that now the audience isn't shopping.

John: 00:09:23

Say that again?

John: 00:09:24

when you go into the settings on standard shopping and you have an

John: 00:09:29

audience that you're targeting, you can't turn on optimized targeting on that.

John: 00:09:32

But on pm m Max's default, right?

John: 00:09:35

So like, let's say you're targeting like, you know, pet lovers or whatever, and

John: 00:09:38

then it will stay within that audience.

John: 00:09:40

It won't expand out of that audience.

John: 00:09:42

Whereas Pax Feed only will expand out of that.

John: 00:09:45

Yeah, and what I found with that is that CPCs are higher

John: 00:09:48

on targeted audiences than not.

John: 00:09:50

yeah.

John: 00:09:50

That's actually what my test was.

John: 00:09:52

I've just been doing nothing but excluding their converters,

John: 00:09:54

but I can't exclude them.

John: 00:09:55

I can only bring it down negative 90% bid adjustments, which is

John: 00:09:58

I'm bidding 50 cents, minus 90%.

John: 00:10:01

I'm not gonna get those converters.

John: 00:10:02

, And if I did, and it's a five second conversion, you, I don't really care.

John: 00:10:05

That cost of acquiring existing customer, Sorry to interrupt, but Caden, did

John: 00:10:10

you say audiences inside of feed only?

John: 00:10:12

Feed only doesn't have audiences?

John: 00:10:14

This is not a glitch.

John: 00:10:15

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John: 00:10:18

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John: 00:10:20

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John: 00:10:23

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John: 00:10:49

hit me blowing the comments.

John: 00:10:50

And now back to your regularly scheduled.

John: 00:10:54

Well, I'm saying audiences like how Pmax works as it expands

John: 00:10:57

outside of the audience.

John: 00:10:58

So like one thing that all like test out will run like, you know, brand

John: 00:11:01

search keywords as like an audience signal inside of feed only, and that'll

John: 00:11:05

expand outside of just people that are, typing in the brand search keywords.

John: 00:11:09

It'll type in and build a look like audience from that.

John: 00:11:12

But then it's not feed only anymore.

John: 00:11:14

It's if you have a audience.

John: 00:11:17

Well, it's still feed only cuz you have no assets, but you're

John: 00:11:20

just pushing it towards like the audience that you wanted to capture.

John: 00:11:23

Oh, okay.

John: 00:11:24

We've never tried that.

John: 00:11:25

Interesting.

John: 00:11:25

Yeah, so it's, it's like there's feed only, there's feed plus audience and

John: 00:11:28

there's full BPI Max and then Glen has his hand raised Or it's a really

John: 00:11:31

small high five like Yeah, just on your point there, Caden, talking about

John: 00:11:34

standard shopping, if we, we can put audience segments as targeting, but

John: 00:11:38

we could just populate everything, every single audience that we've got in

John: 00:11:42

observation and just keep an eye on that.

John: 00:11:44

And then we could put that into targeting, build out.

John: 00:11:47

We could scale out standard shopping campaigns using audience targeting only.

John: 00:11:51

That's true.

John: 00:11:52

But I've seen like CPCs are generally higher in whatever reason Google's

John: 00:11:56

targeting for that audience.

John: 00:11:58

So like whenever you're trying to segment and target an audience,

John: 00:12:00

the adverse CPC will go up.

John: 00:12:02

So you have to bid even higher on it versus just leaving it open.

John: 00:12:05

So it's a debate to have.

John: 00:12:06

I'm just putting like a point out there that if you target expect to

John: 00:12:09

have higher CPCs, well we could then also then start building out some

John: 00:12:15

low, medium, and high priority and put different bids in them then.

John: 00:12:19

Yeah, or you can even target those, or you can set those observations of

John: 00:12:23

those targeted audiences and then do a negative 20% bid adjustment to control

John: 00:12:27

the C P C using it like an observation.

John: 00:12:28

That's a good idea.

John: 00:12:29

Yeah.

John: 00:12:30

We've got a lot of options with standard shopping.

John: 00:12:32

Yeah.

John: 00:12:32

that's the beauty part about this though.

John: 00:12:33

But here's the best part is if performance Max has better standard shopping

John: 00:12:37

performance, and I'm using that as an air quote, like we have, let's say 30

John: 00:12:41

assets and they're all called traffic and, optimized targeting actually has

John: 00:12:44

brought us, keywords and, essentially search categories that we never really

John: 00:12:47

would show up for because of a feed.

John: 00:12:49

That's the benefit that p m max has in shopping is p m max will almost take a

John: 00:12:53

DSA query and show a shopping ad for it.

John: 00:12:55

You can't do that inside of standard shopping.

John: 00:12:57

You have to optimize the feed for that.

John: 00:12:59

that client that I just brought up with, that, that's what that tells me is those

John: 00:13:03

search categories are telling me that there's almost like an a inbound search

John: 00:13:08

element to it that my feed and my search ad are showing for, and I'm getting clicks

John: 00:13:13

Just as a multi-channel attributed click.

John: 00:13:15

It's just like, yeah, it came in.

John: 00:13:17

It came in anywhere.

John: 00:13:17

It came in from an inbound search in the search category.

John: 00:13:19

Was it shopping or search?

John: 00:13:20

Yes.

John: 00:13:21

that doesn't really tell me much but it does tell me that there's

John: 00:13:24

probably potentially less feed optimizations that need to be made

John: 00:13:27

if you're running that inside.

John: 00:13:28

Promise Max, does that mean feed only with or well built out signals.

John: 00:13:32

Perhaps again, this is another tool in this toolbox.

John: 00:13:36

I think that what we've done is sometimes kind of discount a custom

John: 00:13:41

build as a cookie cutter build.

John: 00:13:42

And just say, all right, so let's run like, you know, PAX Brand YouTube, and

John: 00:13:46

then just, Could choose whatever EO goes.

John: 00:13:47

And I've been, that was my fail point there is I think we didn't do

John: 00:13:50

enough into investigation beforehand.

John: 00:13:53

That ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

John: 00:13:55

And I think that a lot of times when we come in our Wednesday

John: 00:13:57

meetings, it's, why'd that die?

John: 00:13:58

I'm like, well, what are they spending on Facebook?

John: 00:14:00

We're like, Oh, we all don't know why It's not because we're bad marketers.

John: 00:14:06

We just never asked that question before and asked it in the wrong point.

John: 00:14:10

We should have asked in the beginning or known about it in the

John: 00:14:12

beginning and built around that rather than building everything

John: 00:14:15

and how we think it's gonna work.

John: 00:14:16

Well, finding out the outside influences, tank our campaign, and

John: 00:14:19

then come back and say, oh, , we didn't realize that they shut off Facebook.

John: 00:14:22

So that's sometimes that not, I'm not saying that's, it's a stream case, but

John: 00:14:26

like, Hey, they ran a sale on Facebook.

John: 00:14:27

Oh, well, because 75% of our campaign structure inside of Google Ads is

John: 00:14:33

highly dependent upon omni channel.

John: 00:14:35

When someone runs a sale on Facebook, we see that sale tick

John: 00:14:38

up inside of Google, that's bad.

John: 00:14:42

That's not.

John: 00:14:44

That's bad for us unless it's brand campaign.

John: 00:14:47

But our pmax should not skyrocket from a Facebook sale.

John: 00:14:50

That means that we're doing too much remarketing and too much inbound traffic.

John: 00:14:53

Traffic from Facebook.

John: 00:14:55

We should see a sale that happens on Facebook that we don't know about,

John: 00:14:57

not affect our Google Ads account.

John: 00:14:59

Cold traffic's not just gonna arrive on the site, be like, ah, who is this person?

John: 00:15:02

Wait 20% off.

John: 00:15:03

I will buy now an 14% convers rate.

John: 00:15:06

That doesn't.

John: 00:15:07

Everybody runs a sale the first time that you give to their website.

John: 00:15:10

You just named that as the price in your mind, and then try to learn who they are.

John: 00:15:14

That happens on Facebook though, so that's why this is gonna be giving

John: 00:15:17

us more well diversified scenario that we can actually start to run

John: 00:15:21

our cold traffic campaigns and.

John: 00:15:25

Be less dependent upon omnichannel sources.

John: 00:15:28

Facebook is still a very, very big contender, huge contender.

John: 00:15:32

Us as really good marketers are not going to ignorantly discount

John: 00:15:35

the value that Facebook brings to a marketing mix where we can't be

John: 00:15:39

as ignorant to say, no, no, no.

John: 00:15:41

Google doesn't, eh, Facebook's Facebook.

John: 00:15:43

we don't have anything to do with them.

John: 00:15:44

That 600,000 RO ads that he got in a brand campaign was all us.

John: 00:15:48

We know that's not to be the.

John: 00:15:50

. So we have to not live and die by potential omnichannel disruptions and

John: 00:15:56

being able to be more independent from omnichannel control placements, bids,

John: 00:16:01

and search terms while running alongside of PAX and see where they overlap and

John: 00:16:06

have that success or where they have those failures are gonna be important