Using Maximize Conversion Value for Performance Max Bidding Strategies Guide Part 6

John: 00:00:10

If you have a smaller budget and that product does well on

John: 00:00:13

Amazon, cuz Amazon has to use G TNS.

John: 00:00:17

You can actually steal a whole bunch of like just kind of leftover traffic.

John: 00:00:19

That's ready to go.

John: 00:00:20

When you have a targeted cost per acquisition for an eCommerce

John: 00:00:26

campaign, it's sometimes better than a maximize conversion value.

John: 00:00:32

With, or even without a T row as campaign, if you switch that

John: 00:00:36

over to manual, CPBC what you've done though, is you've removed.

John: 00:00:40

Google's learning about a person, pitching agencies make sense and freelancers

John: 00:00:44

even, but the idea that a business owner would actually run their own Google ads

John: 00:00:48

at this point truly is akin to your own brain surgery or your own dentistry.

John: 00:00:53

Maybe if we want to be a little less arrogant,

John: 00:00:59

John, I'm gonna start asking the questions that I have.

John: 00:01:01

You ready?

John: 00:01:03

Yep.

John: 00:01:03

Why do we use maximize conversion value for performance max?

John: 00:01:06

If it limits scale.

John: 00:01:08

Because the scale is usually much higher than what our clients can afford.,

John: 00:01:12

if you're using maximize conversion value, you're saying, okay, go find,

John: 00:01:16

meet people on search, shopping, YouTube, GSP discovery, display, top,

John: 00:01:20

middle, and bottom of the funnel.

John: 00:01:22

And only spend on the people that we think are gonna at least

John: 00:01:24

have 150% row as or higher.

John: 00:01:26

And if you don't max out your spend, you will find those people.

John: 00:01:30

Once you maxed out your spend, then you have to do cost.

John: 00:01:32

What will we use to replace manual CPC?

John: 00:01:34

If, and when it goes away, I'd actually use manual maximize conversions.

John: 00:01:38

Most often because manual CPC is best for placement.

John: 00:01:41

And the controlling of the cost would be, if I set a specific T CPA

John: 00:01:46

or maximize conversions, it's going to limit the amount of money you

John: 00:01:49

can spend, which is gonna also spend per click, which is meaning that

John: 00:01:53

your placement is going to go down.

John: 00:01:55

So maximize convergence is like, is essentially default to like,

John: 00:01:58

okay, show me is number one.

John: 00:01:59

But if I only wanna pay X amount of dollars per user per click, It's

John: 00:02:03

going to favor a lower position.

John: 00:02:05

So I would use maximize conversions with, or without a target CPA,

John: 00:02:08

based on how aggressive you are going to get in your manual.

John: 00:02:11

CCPC campaigns does creating a campaign without a goal guidance change and or

John: 00:02:16

limit the machine learning capabilities.

John: 00:02:19

Only if you're choosing a bidding strategy that isn't optimizing for your goal.

John: 00:02:24

So if I needed maximize conversions, And when I set up a manual campaign

John: 00:02:29

without a goal guidance that maximize conversions wasn't there, the

John: 00:02:32

machine is going to optimize whatever bidding strategy you use, which could

John: 00:02:35

default to target cost per milli.

John: 00:02:38

If conversion based bidding strategies work better.

John: 00:02:41

When would you use target CPM or target CP or max CCP?

John: 00:02:46

Excuse me.

John: 00:02:46

Oh if you, maybe you never would.

John: 00:02:48

most of the time it's experimental placement testing.

John: 00:02:51

So for example, if we said, Hey all of our clients that have ever come to us all are

John: 00:02:57

really familiar and learned all this great stuff from this person's YouTube channel.

John: 00:03:01

Mm.

John: 00:03:01

Then I'm gonna try to capture as many people I can on that YouTube

John: 00:03:04

channel for as cheap as possible.

John: 00:03:06

So I can test to see are any of the people on this channel, also interested

John: 00:03:10

in my product without using an automated bidding strategy focused for conversions,

John: 00:03:15

because once that's assumed, which means, okay, if a person is on this YouTube

John: 00:03:20

channel, We're not even leaning on Google's algorithm to get them to convert.

John: 00:03:25

They're just converting naturally.

John: 00:03:28

Then you're going to end up changing that campaign later

John: 00:03:30

on when it's proven to, okay.

John: 00:03:32

Now how much more conversions or can we do a cost control of the conversions by

John: 00:03:36

still using the same, structure setup, which means placement on that channel?

John: 00:03:41

But then using it optimized for either leads or sales.

John: 00:03:44

So you're assuming that you do not know if those people on that channel will

John: 00:03:49

convert when they find out about you.

John: 00:03:51

And if that is the case, lean into it by adding an automating

John: 00:03:54

strategy, cuz you know, there's, the juices worth to squeeze on there.

John: 00:03:57

You're just gonna squeeze it more effectively with an automated video

John: 00:03:59

strategy, focus for conversions.

John: 00:04:01

I love what you said about TCPM.

John: 00:04:04

You're targeting people, max C P you're targeting placements, right.

John: 00:04:08

That's a good distinction from Andrew.

John: 00:04:10

Does gads consider on page behavior from GA for example, session length,

John: 00:04:14

cetera, and automated bidding strategies.

John: 00:04:16

Yes.

John: 00:04:16

Yeah.

John: 00:04:16

And they even will do that.

John: 00:04:18

Even if you don't have a code place on a page, which is scary Google's be.

John: 00:04:23

that it came out with like how many conversions you're getting.

John: 00:04:25

Even if you don't conversion tracking, set up, it's still present.

John: 00:04:28

It's still watching.

John: 00:04:28

And not only is it watching yours, your competitors are also learning from the

John: 00:04:33

activity on your own site, but you're also can target your competitors' users

John: 00:04:37

based on their activity on their site.

John: 00:04:39

So whole reason why conversion based bidding strategies work is because Google

John: 00:04:44

knows that the person that converted on solutions aids website has also been to.

John: 00:04:48

Five of our competitors in the last two weeks, that's infuriating that

John: 00:04:52

they're using it is our competitor data and then sharing 'em back and forth.

John: 00:04:56

I mean, it makes sense.

John: 00:04:56

It'd be hard to build it the other any other way, but that's

John: 00:04:59

well Apart from considering the nature of bidding strategies.

John: 00:05:01

Are there any other factors to consider while choosing the bidding strategy?

John: 00:05:04

Like nature of business, AOB, profit margins, et cetera.

John: 00:05:07

That's a really good question.

John: 00:05:08

Everything.

John: 00:05:11

everything.

John: 00:05:12

You're looking at and that's gonna be kind of the it blends into the other

John: 00:05:15

kind of course, but it makes sense.

John: 00:05:17

You need to look.

John: 00:05:18

The client's budget, what the client can afford to spend per customer.

John: 00:05:22

Do they want to scale or are they good at a specific spend?

John: 00:05:25

What is the LTV of that customer?

John: 00:05:28

I had already said budget, but , that kind of goes down

John: 00:05:30

to, CPA and also that budget.

John: 00:05:32

Like, I pay five for five customers at $500.

John: 00:05:36

Well, is that a week, a day or a month?

John: 00:05:39

That's gonna choose your different bidding strategies there as well.

John: 00:05:41

So, and how much volume, if it's $500, five times a day, I can spend

John: 00:05:47

10 grand a day, but at a target CPA of $500, if I know there's tons of

John: 00:05:51

traffic, I can be pick and choose.

John: 00:05:52

Now I can choose the immense amount of traffic.

John: 00:05:55

That's gonna come in.

John: 00:05:55

Say everyone stop, except for you.

John: 00:05:57

Coming then you use that bidding strategy, which is, maximize converges with a

John: 00:06:01

target cost acquisition, because there's an overwhelming amount of users that are

John: 00:06:04

ready to go and we have a high budget.

John: 00:06:07

So yeah, it's, everything is taken into consideration before

John: 00:06:09

choosing a bidding strategy.

John: 00:06:10

Absolutely.

John: 00:06:12

Osama, you had your hand up,

John: 00:06:15

I just typed it out in the comments I was just to build on.

John: 00:06:19

John's points of stealing data.

John: 00:06:22

ITNS are basically that where if you have the same product as someone else,

John: 00:06:25

you can essentially steal their data.

John: 00:06:27

So if you're selling branded products, get the ITNS for them, put them on

John: 00:06:31

your feed and you can take their data.

John: 00:06:33

Do you mean GTN or is it IEN something sorry.

John: 00:06:36

GT N GT N so curious there, if from a strategic perspective, does it

John: 00:06:40

make sense if you're selling products that everybody else is selling?

John: 00:06:43

If you feel you have more effective target?

John: 00:06:47

Or a channel let's say of, undiscovered prospects to use and go get your own

John: 00:06:53

G TNS from GS one so that Google can't match what it is you've discovered with

John: 00:06:58

what other people are doing now, Google actually rejected because of it valid GTN.

John: 00:07:01

It's gonna say, I know.

John: 00:07:02

Yeah, it says I know the product.

John: 00:07:04

I know the picture.

John: 00:07:04

I know the placement I know what this is.

John: 00:07:06

That's around GTN and then actually just gets disapproved to G.

John: 00:07:09

That's amazing.

John: 00:07:11

Yep.

John: 00:07:11

And what's actually funny though, is a lot of times when you have a G T I

John: 00:07:14

N a lot of times, what what's really cool is if you have a smaller budget

John: 00:07:19

and that product does well on Amazon.

John: 00:07:22

Because Amazon has to use G TNS.

John: 00:07:24

You can actually steal a whole bunch of like, just kind of leftover traffic.

John: 00:07:27

That's ready to go by saying like, Hey, for 20 bucks a

John: 00:07:29

day on this product has GTN.

John: 00:07:30

That's popular.

John: 00:07:31

You just gotta get like the leftovers that are just fast converters, but

John: 00:07:33

it's hard to scale out of it because then you have to be better than what

John: 00:07:36

Amazon's offering, which means price in delivering your, your shipping types.

John: 00:07:39

Cubage T CPA is meant for lead gen and Tero as is meant for eCommerce.

John: 00:07:45

No, so actually that's a great question that I missed.

John: 00:07:48

So thank you for bringing that.

John: 00:07:49

It was a point that I'd made in my head and I skipped over it in my mouth.

John: 00:07:52

So my brain were too faster.

John: 00:07:54

When I slowed myself down.

John: 00:07:55

When you have a targeted cost per acquisition for an eCommerce

John: 00:08:01

campaign, it's sometimes better than a maximized conversion value with,

John: 00:08:07

or even without a T row as campaign.

John: 00:08:09

And because of this reason, if you have a.

John: 00:08:14

Wide array of product prices for a client $20 up to $500.

John: 00:08:19

If you find the average order of value is X and it's fairly consistent.

John: 00:08:24

Like it's always 2 25.

John: 00:08:25

Sometimes it's 180.

John: 00:08:26

Sometimes that's 300, but majority of the time, month over month, about 2 25,

John: 00:08:30

you can use a maximized conversions with a target cost for acquisition of 50.

John: 00:08:36

And get a 400 row as or 80 and get a 300 row.

John: 00:08:39

As what you're asking Google to do is don't ignore those small sales, keep

John: 00:08:45

them because that averages out to a higher volume and an average AOB.

John: 00:08:50

Think about if you were to take a hundred sales.

John: 00:08:52

That are two 50 on average.

John: 00:08:55

And if you say no, no, no only go after the $250 sales, you might cut

John: 00:08:59

your volume down by 30% because you've erased the left side of the balance.

John: 00:09:05

So you've actually reduced your overall volume because you said only go after

John: 00:09:10

the big sales ignore littler sales.

John: 00:09:12

Your AOB will go up.

John: 00:09:14

Your volume will go down.

John: 00:09:15

Because you've, you've taken that balancing part said, gimme the $20

John: 00:09:19

and the $500 to equal 200, you said no more, $50 only go after 200.

John: 00:09:25

So your AOB goes up, but then you missed the 30 sales you're gonna make that week.

John: 00:09:28

So I actually like.

John: 00:09:30

Maximize conversions with the target cost for acquisition when

John: 00:09:33

it's consistent, bottom of the funnel traffic that the average

John: 00:09:36

door value does not change look at.

John: 00:09:38

And that's the end of that part.

John: 00:09:40

The non publishing part is if you all, wanted to look

John: 00:09:43

at their, AOBs always two 80.

John: 00:09:45

I said a TCP at one 20, and I'm, I'm consistently at 2.8 to three

John: 00:09:49

X return for the last two years.

John: 00:09:51

In our PAX pillar article, we recommend lead gen businesses use

John: 00:09:54

maximize conversions without setting target CPA or T row as, and for

John: 00:09:57

e-com we recommend conversions.

John: 00:09:59

Did you just say this change to maximize conversion value?

John: 00:10:03

Yeah.

John: 00:10:03

In our pillar article for our bidding, when we go through the tutorial section,

John: 00:10:08

the Recommended bidding strategy that we offer for lead generation businesses

John: 00:10:13

are to utilize maximize conversions.

John: 00:10:16

We tell them do not maximize conversion value mm-hmm and to do that without

John: 00:10:20

target CPA or TRO it's similar for e-comm and I, yes, cause that's still okay.

John: 00:10:26

Cuz I just, yeah, I wasn't said differently.

John: 00:10:29

Oh, and I'm sorry.

John: 00:10:30

I think I had a little bit of lag there, so I over spoke.

John: 00:10:32

So I'm sorry, go, go ahead.

John: 00:10:33

I apologize.

John: 00:10:34

No, I just wasn't sure.

John: 00:10:36

I thought that you had just said, but I'm also an idiot.

John: 00:10:38

So I don't know.

John: 00:10:39

I thought you just said that you were on team maximize

John: 00:10:42

conversion value for PAX now.

John: 00:10:44

So I was like, oh no.

John: 00:10:46

Did I just mess that up?

John: 00:10:47

in the article or no, no, you're you're right.

John: 00:10:50

And for lead generation, cause it's an article without saying.

John: 00:10:55

Apply an arbitrary value to the value of your conversions and then Justin

John: 00:10:58

automated bidding strategy based on those values after you've qualified

John: 00:11:02

that the person that came in actually spent that money without going down

John: 00:11:04

that crazy rabbit hole that they have to actually be experts in Google ads.

John: 00:11:07

This is the safe, like 1 0 1.

John: 00:11:10

Okay.

John: 00:11:10

So you're, you're still a hundred percent correct.

John: 00:11:12

The best agency knows.

John: 00:11:13

Okay, now we'll have to manipulate that specifically, but for just

John: 00:11:16

someone that's reading through and that says, okay, and then the clicking

John: 00:11:18

a button that's still perfect.

John: 00:11:20

Thank God.

John: 00:11:21

Thank you.

John: 00:11:22

You know what I decided on this phone call the idea that we would

John: 00:11:25

teach people how to run these.

John: 00:11:28

Campaigns and accounts themselves without actually being professionals.

John: 00:11:30

Teaching agencies make sense in freelancers even, but the idea that

John: 00:11:34

a business owner would actually run their own Google ads at this

John: 00:11:36

point truly is akin to your own brain surgery or your own dentistry.

John: 00:11:41

Maybe if we wanna be a little less arrogant, like,

John: 00:11:43

it's a level of expertise.

John: 00:11:45

It's like Andrew's video today on the, how to fly the airplane.

John: 00:11:47

It's so stupid to think that, oh, I'm just gonna shoot some YouTube

John: 00:11:50

videos and teach you how to fly an airplane and you're not gonna kill.

John: 00:11:53

There's if there's so much complexity Glen asks considering the difference

John: 00:11:57

between TCP and T Roaz, would it be worthwhile then creating two campaigns,

John: 00:12:02

exact same settings, then create one with T CPA and one with T Roaz.

John: 00:12:07

Then one campaign will go after conversions with the CPA focus and

John: 00:12:10

the other will go after conversions with the Roaz focus or would those

John: 00:12:12

campaigns just be fighting each other?

John: 00:12:14

No, that would be fire to each other.

John: 00:12:15

I'm assuming Glen, that you're using the same feed for both those campaigns.

John: 00:12:19

Two things are gonna happen.

John: 00:12:20

One they're gonna fight each other, but two, they might share users.

John: 00:12:22

So one may have a first click because it was a T CPA that was higher.

John: 00:12:29

Or lower.

John: 00:12:29

And then one might get the second click because the value of that conversion

John: 00:12:32

or the cost that conversion was higher or lower than that campaign's goal.

John: 00:12:35

So a lot of times they will either share a user back and forth, which means both

John: 00:12:39

are just kind of blended together that may have not actually had a different

John: 00:12:42

outcome than if it was just one campaign.

John: 00:12:44

But if it's with a feed, you're gonna see that whatever campaign

John: 00:12:47

quote unquote gets the better performance is just gonna steal all the

John: 00:12:50

impressions and ignore the other one.

John: 00:12:52

There's a concept.

John: 00:12:53

in coding when, as it pertains to relational databases, does everybody

John: 00:12:57

know what a relational database is?

John: 00:12:59

Think like a database error.

John: 00:13:01

That's funny when I worked for John, which was for years and years, anytime

John: 00:13:04

him and his dad would ask me a question.

John: 00:13:05

I didn't know.

John: 00:13:06

I would tell him I was a database error.

John: 00:13:09

we like, oh, okay.

John: 00:13:09

That makes sense.

John: 00:13:10

Yeah.

John: 00:13:10

Sounds reasonable.

John: 00:13:12

so a relational database is think of like a Google sheet and Excel

John: 00:13:15

file, but it it's three dimensional.

John: 00:13:18

So you have fields that are drawn from another Excel file.

John: 00:13:22

That's the relation.

John: 00:13:23

So relational database it's instead of, an X and Y you have an X and Y and a Z.

John: 00:13:26

This is a really, really important concept that I want us all to wrap our

John: 00:13:29

heads around what John has said here.

John: 00:13:31

And I actually really appreciated it.

John: 00:13:33

And it came from one of our questions is we have to take

John: 00:13:35

everything into consideration.

John: 00:13:37

So we just learned bid strategies today, but there's no, if this, then that bid

John: 00:13:41

strategy there's no, if this one thing, then that bid strategy that doesn't.

John: 00:13:46

Because it's still going to be if this and that, except when

John: 00:13:49

only, you know what I mean?

John: 00:13:51

And then we get our bid strategy.

John: 00:13:53

So this one class is actually.

John: 00:13:55

Worthless until you've taken the next 50 Friday classes that we're

John: 00:14:01

gonna go through and what's gonna happen is you're gonna build.

John: 00:14:03

And this is the way that John thinks you'll actually start to see it.

John: 00:14:05

When you watch him, he thinks in a relational manner, his

John: 00:14:09

brain is a relational database.

John: 00:14:11

Really?

John: 00:14:11

So is everybody's.

John: 00:14:12

I think his is just maybe a little bit more developed than most.

John: 00:14:14

So you're gonna start to figure out these rules, like if this, then that.

John: 00:14:18

Okay.

John: 00:14:19

Tiro as, except when, and we have this one little piece, but

John: 00:14:22

the reason I'm bringing this.

John: 00:14:23

It's because there's a lot of this when I try to build information

John: 00:14:26

and this is the way that I think learning heuristics tend to work.

John: 00:14:29

You try to put it somewhere like this goes here and the problem with

John: 00:14:34

anything relational is it only goes here in relation to other elements.

John: 00:14:39

Well, those other elements don't exist yet.

John: 00:14:41

So.

John: 00:14:42

That's gonna make learning this a little frustrating.

John: 00:14:45

It's also why Google ads is so complex.

John: 00:14:47

It's why we have jobs.

John: 00:14:48

So from here until forever, I want us to continue to look at

John: 00:14:52

this as relational learning.

John: 00:14:54

And that means that we'll probably have to start revisiting some of

John: 00:14:57

these topics, six months from now.

John: 00:14:59

Maybe we have another conversation on bid strateg.

John: 00:15:02

Only it's more complex cuz now John's taught us the other 20 things that are

John: 00:15:06

involved in the relational database and he can come back around and , we

John: 00:15:09

can, dive a little bit deeper.

John: 00:15:11

Every new hire that comes through solutions, eight's gonna have to watch

John: 00:15:14

every single one of these courses.

John: 00:15:16

And I want us all speaking the same language.

John: 00:15:18

We're singing the same song, dancing the same steps all to the same tune.

John: 00:15:22

And it's really important.

John: 00:15:23

That if we can tie ourselves together, I think that we're gonna avoid a lot of

John: 00:15:26

the issues that we've had in the past.

John: 00:15:27

John, to, , to build on that, we had an internal discussion as to

John: 00:15:31

the curriculum of these courses.

John: 00:15:33

And one thing came up was, Hey, why do we do a diagnostic course,

John: 00:15:37

like how to diagnose problems?

John: 00:15:38

And it's almost like.

John: 00:15:41

Akin to what Cosmo said, that relational learning, you can't use

John: 00:15:44

the tools in your mind to diagnose if you haven't built , the tool set yet.

John: 00:15:48

And I don't mean like, Hey, everyone here is not ready yet.

John: 00:15:51

That's not what I mean.

John: 00:15:52

I mean that if anybody, if I said, Hey, perform brain surgery

John: 00:15:55

because something's wrong.

John: 00:15:56

You're like, well, I don't even know how to diagnose.

John: 00:15:59

Because I haven't been taught the MRI machine.

John: 00:16:01

I haven't taught what to look for in the MRI machine.

John: 00:16:03

I haven't taught like how to use the local anesthetic machine yet, whatever

John: 00:16:06

it's and I dunno medical, but , I'm paraphrasing here, but exactly some

John: 00:16:10

ads, but a summit you had to do college for years before you could do that.

John: 00:16:13

Right.

John: 00:16:14

This is college.

John: 00:16:15

So before we can diagnose.

John: 00:16:17

What we have to do is learn the tools, how they are in relationship to each

John: 00:16:21

other, and then you'll diagnose.

John: 00:16:22

And what's funny is you'll see this happen, cuz this is how I learned

John: 00:16:26

Google ads, where now that we have the bidding strategies down

John: 00:16:29

and the next time you hop into a campaign, you're like, wait a minute.

John: 00:16:31

My search impression shares, maxed out my click shares, maxed out.

John: 00:16:34

I can't spend any more money.

John: 00:16:36

but as I'm using a restrictive bidding strategy, aha.

John: 00:16:39

What if I release that restrictive bidding strategy and make it expensive?

John: 00:16:42

Bing strategy.

John: 00:16:43

Does my click share go down?

John: 00:16:44

Which is good.

John: 00:16:45

Does my top search of pressure for my search of pressure, go down.

John: 00:16:48

I now know that this was an audience based and now the way to diagnosis.

John: 00:16:52

Well, if I need that to go up, I need that to go left.

John: 00:16:55

Then that's how the relationship is getting.

John: 00:16:58

That's our new company mantra, by the way, we want it to go up and left.

John: 00:17:02

that means that we're making money up into the side is good

John: 00:17:06

down that point of op learning.

John: 00:17:09

The neuro synapses in your brain don't finish the connection until after

John: 00:17:12

you've actually tried to do something.

John: 00:17:14

There's a really amazing book called the talent code.

John: 00:17:17

And it talks about how your brain builds the gray matter.

John: 00:17:20

That allows you to do the thing that you learn.

John: 00:17:22

And if you sit in a classroom, this is why school is violently flawed.

John: 00:17:26

If you sit in a classroom and learn something, you

John: 00:17:28

actually don't build that gray.

John: 00:17:30

So somebody could sit there for two years showing you schematics and PowerPoint

John: 00:17:33

presentations on riding a bike.

John: 00:17:35

But if you never actually ride on a bike and jump on a bike and start to

John: 00:17:38

pedal, you're not gonna go anywhere.

John: 00:17:40

So that's so funny.

John: 00:17:42

So what I'm saying is, after these classes, assuming you want to y'all,

John: 00:17:45

I can't make anybody be any more proactive than they want to be.

John: 00:17:48

But if you wanna connect the dots, the thing to do is to go open up Google ads

John: 00:17:52

and start looking at clients, start trying to say like, okay, when does this apply?

John: 00:17:55

How does this apply, et cetera.

John: 00:17:57

And I think this is gonna be the most productive two hours we spend.

John: 00:18:00

We've got a couple more.

John: 00:18:01

Questions that I wanna fly through.

John: 00:18:02

Jeremy just said another great book is learn like a pro.

John: 00:18:05

Thank you for that, Jeremy.

John: 00:18:05

I wanna go track it down.

John: 00:18:06

Maximize conversion is aggressive and hence would bid higher in most cases,

John: 00:18:09

but doesn't that exhaust the budget soon.

John: 00:18:12

And if that's the case, then in most cases it would only bid when it

John: 00:18:14

thinks the conversion rate is higher.

John: 00:18:16

And so would a competitive market of similar.

John: 00:18:18

Price products fail a max conversion bid strategy.

John: 00:18:21

Yes.

John: 00:18:21

So that's, now this isn't a cure and you're right.

John: 00:18:24

It does bid aggressive sometimes more so than what the budget allows for.

John: 00:18:29

So when you're using maximize conversions, for example, it's going to be an

John: 00:18:33

expensive conversion that is going to.

John: 00:18:37

We get as many as possible within your budget.

John: 00:18:40

And what happens there is it usually shoots up to the top and CPC gets

John: 00:18:45

as many conversions as it can.

John: 00:18:46

It tries to drop the CPC enough until it sees the conversions whittle down.

John: 00:18:50

And then it goes back up and says to get as many conversions.

John: 00:18:52

Here's where I think we need to be.

John: 00:18:55

If you switch that over to manual CPC, what you've done

John: 00:18:58

though, is you've removed.

John: 00:18:59

Google's learning about a.

John: 00:19:01

And said, okay.

John: 00:19:02

Do you wanna do the placement or do you wanna have the placement for

John: 00:19:05

who we think is going to convert?

John: 00:19:07

So sometimes you can pay a little less per click, but all of a sudden

John: 00:19:09

you've gotten a different audience now.

John: 00:19:11

So that's the point of delineation and there's no one

John: 00:19:14

size fits all you might say.

John: 00:19:15

No, no, no.

John: 00:19:15

The people that Google this keyword, a lot of times, they convert regardless

John: 00:19:19

of where they are in the funnel that happens sometimes quite often,

John: 00:19:22

two examples, a deck consolidation company, and a loan company that

John: 00:19:25

I've worked on manual CPC did not.

John: 00:19:29

Do as well as maximize conversions and also vice versa.

John: 00:19:33

And it was because , with a audience based bidding strategy, I was able to actually

John: 00:19:36

take a target cost for acquisition to an $8 lead where my manual, I couldn't get

John: 00:19:43

on the first page until I was at $15.

John: 00:19:45

So it was really weird.

John: 00:19:46

I couldn't, if I was spending $15, I finally got on the first page for deck

John: 00:19:49

consolidation, cuz that's super, super aggressive industry, but there was so

John: 00:19:53

much traffic that I said $8 conversions.

John: 00:19:54

I would just be like, I would just snip in 'em and I was

John: 00:19:56

getting 50% conversion rates.

John: 00:19:57

It was ridiculous.

John: 00:19:59

So again, there's always gonna be those odd sources, but typically.

John: 00:20:02

What Google will try to do is bit aggressive.

John: 00:20:04

Then only go down to where they see the point of diminishing

John: 00:20:06

returns to conversions.

John: 00:20:07

Then go back up.

John: 00:20:09

It has not tested lowered, though.

John: 00:20:10

If you wanna switch it to mad, you wanna say, wait a minute.

John: 00:20:12

I think we're spending too much.

John: 00:20:13

And you find that pocket there.

John: 00:20:15

Good on you.

John: 00:20:16

That's why we're here.

John: 00:20:17

So yes, that is very absolutely possible.

John: 00:20:19

The only point is did Google's match types were so widely.

John: 00:20:23

Odd that I don't have a keyword.

John: 00:20:25

I could focus on.

John: 00:20:25

I needed to lean on Google's ability to say exact, my close variant of an odd

John: 00:20:30

keyword, but I got the conversion again.

John: 00:20:32

Like that's crazy.

John: 00:20:33

That's crazy.

John: 00:20:34

I'm good.

John: 00:20:34

Given time people or giving people their time back, how do you feel.

John: 00:20:38

Is that all the questions?

John: 00:20:39

It's all the questions.