The Move to a One-Click World and How It’s Changing the Agency Space

Speaker: 00:00:11

it's terrifying in so many ways because,

you know, we're agency owners and media

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buyers and one click sounds a whole lot

like hands off, don't touch it, don't

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pay your agency, bring it in house.

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When we met, but y'all reminded me of me

and John, you guys are like the new me

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and John, the younger, Improved versions

sort of, where do we go from here?

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And I think John's been talking about

it for a year and a half, which is you

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need to be moving out of ROAS to MIRV.

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It's Carson with Solutions 8 and

this is your daily Google news.

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: 00:00:43

I'm here with a buddy who I've been

trying to get on the channel for, it's

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: 00:00:46

at least a year, you've been elusive.

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it's my buddy Nathan BlueSenseDigital

based out of Australia, which

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is a real place I found out.

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public school students

were mighty surprised.

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I figured it was like, lore and J.

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R.

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R.

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Tolkien, but no, there's a real continent.

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You and your partner Sebastian

started BlueSenseDigital how long ago?

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Three, three and a half years ago now.

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And since then we had this conversation,

when we had met, but y'all reminded

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me of me and John, the younger.

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Improved versions.

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Cause you're doing all the things

that agencies generally don't do.

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You're doing the deep dives.

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You're kind of at the vanguard.

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You're cracking codes

and figuring shit out.

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And you just launched

your own YouTube channel.

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So for our subscribers that, cause we

get a lot of, well, I wish you guys

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would go back to the way things were.

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this is the place to go.

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This is going to be, my prediction

would be that BlueSenseDigital's,

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YouTube channel ends up being

the new solutions eight in terms

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of some of the more tactical.

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Like, hey, let's actually

dive deep and figure it out.

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And that's not to say that you

should stop watching solutions

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at YouTube channel, by the way,

because we're still bringing fire.

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but we do a lot of, the day to day.

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Like, how do you manage Google ads

campaigns on a recurring basis?

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That's where we found

our bread and butter is.

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And to be honest with you, it

tends to bring in more clients.

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the thing that sucked about producing

the content that you produce is.

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You get a lot of people they're

almost too smart to sell.

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it's a good problem to have

though, because that's where all

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of our, really high end clients

came from the content strategy.

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So I'm excited for you, man.

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and you've got a podcast too, right?

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Yeah, we do.

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It's it's called, the

blues brother podcast.

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And we just talk about e commerce.

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That's awesome.

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Um, so they're friends of solutions.

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Eight, follow the channel,

check out the podcast.

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Let's support them.

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Uh, finally got you on my channel and,

we're going to be talking about quite a

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bit here, but the thing that caught my

attention when you fired off your talking

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points is, the move to a one click world.

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That is the best clickbait

title I've ever heard.

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it's terrifying in so many ways

because know, we're agency owners

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and media buyers and one click

sounds a whole lot like hands off.

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Don't touch it.

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Don't pay your agency, bring it in house.

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So tell me more about the one click world

and whether or not agencies survive.

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Yeah.

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So if you look at the intent of Google

and Facebook, what is their intent?

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And that's to maximize revenue and

maximize inventory and the best

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way that they can possibly do that.

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Is to build towards a one click

world where any advertiser can hop

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on the platform, click one button,

launch a campaign, and be spending.

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But I think it goes a little bit deeper

than that, which is, if it's a one click

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world, anyone can hop on, create a PMAX

in one click, auto generates images,

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everything, now you're advertising.

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Why wouldn't Google even

out CPAs with gross margins?

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So that they can squeeze every brand

as much as possible, because that's

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ultimately how Google maximizes Rev.

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Is that they take as much of your

gross margin as they can, and

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they leave you with just enough.

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So that you keep spending on the platform.

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And so I think it's a, dangerous

position that we're moving towards,

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particularly with Facebook as well,

rolling out advantage plus, which is

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essentially a completely automated

version of current campaigns.

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There's no targeting.

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You just drop ads in and it just goes,

and you don't really know what it's doing.

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and performance max is similar.

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You can pull in backend scripts,

you can pull data, but it really is.

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Nearly one click, you're dropping in

assets, most of the assets that get

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served in PMAX are auto generated anyway.

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It's normally serving DSA,

it's not serving any of the

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static titles or descriptions

that you're providing it with.

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And so sort of, where do we go from here?

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And I think John's been talking about it

for a year, a year and a half, which is

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you need to be moving out of ROAS to MIRM.

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and I think that's almost becoming the

standard for most agencies and most

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people that are looking in platform.

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And that sort of comes back to the

one click world as well, which is.

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Google wants to attribute as

much revenue as humanly possible

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to the platform because they're

incentivized to make you spend more.

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And so if you think, Oh, my entire

business is reliant on Google.

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I do 150, 000 in rev a month.

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And a hundred thousand

of that is from Google.

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We can't stop spending.

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In fact, we should probably spend more,

but performance max is just going and

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retargeting all existing customers.

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And you do some quick math on the backend

and you find out that you had your

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Google attributed revenue with Facebook.

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And it's two X, what your actual PNL is.

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And so things don't start to line up.

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Are you using third

party attribution tools?

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We are, but, triple well.

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Oh my goodness.

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All right.

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Yeah.

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I've heard really good things

about triple well, John worked

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with them for a while, early stage.

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Yeah.

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there really any sense in trying

to identify the attribution

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thread at this point?

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mean, part of me wants

to just say, screw it.

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Three buckets, top of funnel performance,

middle of funnel performance,

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bottom of funnel performance.

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And then we're just

measuring cash in cash out.

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We're just going more.

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I'm not even going to attempt to see

on individual transactions where the

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thread goes, because it's too hard.

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It's too impossible.

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correct.

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John Ivanko, who is the co founder

of FormToro, which is pop up forms

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on site, collecting zero party data.

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He has a quote, which is Attribution.

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Is trying to find a customer

journey in a company journey.

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And so you'll never end up figuring

out what the customer is doing because

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you're just looking at a few companies

and how they're attributing the customer.

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And in reality, if we were to sit

back and say, all right, your average

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Econ brand or even your average lead

gen brand, how good is attribution

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in Google and Facebook out of 100%?

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It's probably like 80, maybe 75, maybe 70.

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And so how much of a squeeze is

there putting all of your time and

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focus going from 70 to 80 or from 80

to 90 when there's a hundred other

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bottlenecks in your business and

that's why you're not actually growing.

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I think business owners get

really caught up on attribution

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and it makes sense, right?

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Because as a business owner, you have

your cash flow and you're going, I

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want to grow, where do I put it?

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Do I put it into Google ads?

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Do I put it into Facebook?

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Do I put it into my SEO team over here?

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Who's saying that they're

driving all the revenue?

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Where should I put the cash?

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And then everyone's telling

you different numbers.

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It doesn't all add up.

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And so you're trying to just quickly grow

the business with a single decision, but

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you can't because it's all a bit cloudy.

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How would you un murky the waters for us?

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So I'm a brand, I have

a tax relevant spend.

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I have the, paradox of success and I

am I'm doing social and I'm doing paid

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and I'm doing search and I'm doing organic

and I'm doing a Little outreach and PR

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and direct and all that just media mix.

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You're my CMO What decision do we make

now or what do we start looking for?

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Like what's the next step?

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I think firstly, you do look at the

attributed numbers with an assumption

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that they are 60 to 70 percent accurate.

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and generally speaking, if you

have a good media buyer, you can

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tell where people are pathwaying.

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There's the basics, Facebook will

normally over attribute on retargeting

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if you're doing a lot of Google spend.

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If you're doing a lot of Facebook

spend, Google will just scoop up brand

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search and look better than it is.

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So you need to look one layer deeper

than whatever's being attributed.

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And then I would be looking

at Top level CAC or NMR, which

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is just Acquisition Merged.

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So you're looking at new customer

revenue rather than total revenue.

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And then you're making tweaks

on a week to week basis with the

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acquisition strategy and seeing how

that impacts your top line numbers.

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for example, if you're spending 50 50

on Google and Facebook, And the CMO

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has a prediction working with the media

buying agency or whatever it might

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be, that if we spend more on Facebook,

we'll see better returns, increase spend

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on Facebook for 2 to 3 weeks and just

directly track top line revenue and

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try to keep other variables constant.

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It's going to be tough to do keeping

variables constant, especially

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when you're at a certain scale, but

taking a more holistic view while

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also having consideration of the

in platform numbers is going Yeah,

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well, I like what you said, too.

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It's actually, it's not an answer.

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It's sequence of tests

that probably never end.

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We're not going to make a decision

and then drive hard in that direction.

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We're going to start tweaking things so

we know what our knobs and our levers are.

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And then we're going to see how

those tweaks impact whatever the

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relevant KPI is at the moment, right?

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Be it Mer, NCAC, or however, because

I know everybody's measuring success

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differently and so should they.

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It's really easy for me to say LTV is

the only number that matters, because it

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is, but not in a 90 day period, right?

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There's no such thing as LTV.

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So now it's, hyper dependent

upon the business model too.

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And that's the other thing that I

think that we did a really poor

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job as educators getting across.

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there's no template.

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There can't because your business is,

So unique and then the approach that

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your business needs to take is so unique.

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And so even you saying like, Mer

is the only way that we need to

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measure and correct me here, if

you think that I'm wrong, Nathan,

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but, if I'm zooming out, Mer is.

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the golden ratio, but if you're doing

the week over week analysis that

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you just referenced, can Murray even

be relevant because it doesn't take

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into consideration things like, lag

indicators, people in the pipeline,

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it doesn't Murr have to be a longterm.

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I mean, at least quarter over quarter,

if not year over year analysis.

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Yeah.

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what you're saying is that

there's an attribution lag on new

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customers as they enter the funnel.

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Yeah.

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Because if you increase spend really

rapidly, your MER will just drop.

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Well, you said that way better than I did.

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So, what are the other KPIs that

you recommend businesses look

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at as lead indicators for MER?

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So, if MER can't, I mean, MER is our gold

standard and we know that for a fact, but

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on a long enough timeline, as I'm in the

thick of it and I'm doing the test that

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you referenced on a week over week basis,

and I need to make decisions based off of

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yield of those tests, what is that yield?

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Like, what are the data

points that you're looking at?

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It depends if you're rapidly

increasing spend or not, because

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you could look at MER if you're

not increasing spend week on week.

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And that's what you said

about keeping variables.

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Yeah, because then technically that

lag would catch up and then you're

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just backfilling into the lag.

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Okay.

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But I really like looking at CAC these

days over MER and the reason being is that

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the best brands to work with end up being

CPG brands, so consumable based brands

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that have repeat purchases and have a

strong LTV, in which case CAC just makes

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a lot more sense when you can benchmark

towards a 90 day or a 180 day LTV, which

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they're targeting, and we know that that

cash flow is going to come off the back of

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acquiring a customer for a specific cost.

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especially with consumables, the

interesting thing about what I'm seeing

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there is, first year shooting fish in

a barrel, but then all you need is one

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other competitor to enter that space.

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And now people are spending more to

acquire a customer than the customer's

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worth the first time, the second

time, the third time, and then,

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you kind of have this race to the

bottom, said this to somebody today,

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I feel like we're in a traffic

bubble because you used to be

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able to self liquidate traffic.

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have very few customers that are self

liquidating, especially in the consumable

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space because they're all such small

purchases on the front end, generally

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speaking, with a few exceptions.

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So then it's like, all right, well,

I'm not going to self liquidate,

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but I'm going to make money on

the upsell or the order bump.

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And then it's like, well, the

upsell on the order bump pays

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for my traffic, but I'm going to

make money on the next purchase.

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Well, I'm not going to make money

on the next purchase, but my, my

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LTV is this and my CAC is that.

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So as long as my LTV outpaces my

CAC, You know, it takes me however

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long to maintain profitability.

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So based on the customers that you're

seeing, do you think we're in a bubble?

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Do you think the traffic costs are viable?

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Or are we going to see a down

regulation once certain brands realize

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this just isn't viable anymore?

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big yes.

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I tell someone what that used to be.

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I cost, they're up enormously.

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And I think that particularly last

year, as well as this year, It's the

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squeeze that most agencies didn't

expect because COVID was so easy.

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it would start a brand, launch a

campaign, make money, full stop.

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And then what also ended up happening

was all of these brands did so well.

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And there was such explosive

growth through: 2020

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22 a little bit, is that everyone

then over inflated their OPEX.

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Because there were now

a new revenue level.

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So they went, okay, now we need

to hire a marketing manager.

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We need to hire this.

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We need to hire that.

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And then suddenly their

OPEX grew from nothing.

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It was just a one person brand.

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Now they have seven people on

the team and revenues declined

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by 30 percent in the last year.

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And so everyone's saying this huge squeeze

and we get clients coming to us all the

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time where they'll come and we'll go,

okay, so let's lay out your financials.

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What's your target?

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And we are, and they'll go, and

you've probably got this before.

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And they'll go, 10 and they go,

Oh, actually, no, it might be

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14 and you go, well, good luck.

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you sell a hundred dollar product.

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We're not acquiring customers for 8.

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Like it's just not

happening on any platform.

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I don't know how you expect

to scale at a 14 mirror.

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And they're like, Oh, well we have to,

because we have 80, 000 in OPEX per month.

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You know, why do you have 80,

Oh, because it's just there.

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It's just on the P& L.

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The accountant told us

it's there, so it's there.

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start to find a situation where

a majority of brands now aren't

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facing really a marketing problem.

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It's an operational issue.

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even their contribution margin on orders.

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So you'll have brands that will

have 30 percent gross margins

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on non repeat purchase products.

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80, 000.

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And you go, how do you expect to have any

allocation towards marketing when you're

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only making 30 percent gross, right?

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Because 30 percent gross means that if

you want to operate at 15 percent net as a

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company, assuming no fixed costs, no OPEX.

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You'd have to spend 15 percent

on marketing, which is the

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equivalent to about a 6 MER, a

7 MER, and that's with no OPEX.

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Right.

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how does that operationally make sense

unless you're at a huge scale doing

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really 20, 30, 40 million a year?

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Yeah, already said this, it's not

accounting for OPEX, but I think what

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a lot of people don't realize when

they're playing their Excel file games

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is we're all multi millionaires on

Google Sheets, but it doesn't take

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into consideration things like returns,

you know, I mean, the econ game.

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Is one or lost in some instances

in certain industries, just

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on returns, or the fact that

everybody's offering free shipping.

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Well, someone pays for that, lot of

these, especially the students that enter

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the game, I don't think they're taught

properly the way to look at numbers.

310

: 00:14:13

I like what you said that most of

these problems aren't marketing

311

: 00:14:15

problems or operations problems.

312

: 00:14:16

That also kind of lends itself to

the idea that agencies they're

313

: 00:14:19

not media buyers anymore.

314

: 00:14:20

They're like business consultants, because

you have to know what you just said.

315

: 00:14:24

You'd have to know to look

at how to look at a P& L.

316

: 00:14:26

bet you 90 percent of agency owners don't

know how to look at a P& L properly.

317

: 00:14:29

So yeah, you'd have to know how to

look at a P& L, how to zero in on

318

: 00:14:33

where, you know, where's the inflated

number, really start to pick it apart.

319

: 00:14:37

And then it kind of begs an

interesting philosophical question,

320

: 00:14:40

which is the viability of a business.

321

: 00:14:43

is entirely dependent upon your CAC.

322

: 00:14:47

I'm backing into this too, because I'm

having this thought as you and Eric

323

: 00:14:49

talking, but right now what everybody

does is they build a business, they

324

: 00:14:52

build the assembly line, they build

the product, they build the fulfillment

325

: 00:14:54

team, and then they go and they tell guys

like us, all right, we have to have 6X.

326

: 00:15:00

We have to have 9x, we have to

have 15x, based off of this.

327

: 00:15:04

And really what should happen

is, we should go try to sell

328

: 00:15:06

this shit, and come back and say,

okay, you can afford 4x business.

329

: 00:15:10

So you gotta go figure out how to

squeeze all of your crap into 4x, and

330

: 00:15:13

if you can, you'll make some money.

331

: 00:15:15

And if you can't, then don't do this.

332

: 00:15:17

But that's not the way that we function.

333

: 00:15:18

And we can't sell it

that way either, sadly.

334

: 00:15:20

you're spot on.

335

: 00:15:20

that's why we particularly, we

started losing, we lost a few clients.

336

: 00:15:24

We lost two to three clients and every

time we lose a client, man said, sit

337

: 00:15:28

down for a 30 minute meeting and we

just take complete ownership of why the

338

: 00:15:32

client left and try to figure out how

we can never have that situation again.

339

: 00:15:35

Because if you can fix every time

a client leaves, then eventually

340

: 00:15:38

clients will just never leave because

you've patched every single hole.

341

: 00:15:42

what we found for three clients in a

row was that even with all the ownership

342

: 00:15:46

and responsibility that we could take,

it ended up being operational issues.

343

: 00:15:50

One was, overinflated opex.

344

: 00:15:52

Their opex was so high from Covid.

345

: 00:15:54

They hired, so their revenue

went from 300 to 600.

346

: 00:15:58

They went and increased

their staff from two to 15.

347

: 00:16:01

Oh, good.

348

: 00:16:01

post covid drop, no cutting of staff.

349

: 00:16:04

Staff remained the same.

350

: 00:16:05

And so their targets got outta control.

351

: 00:16:07

Just outrageous.

352

: 00:16:08

And we're like, well,

we, we can't hit this.

353

: 00:16:10

Another one was a

consumable brand, $60 a OV.

354

: 00:16:13

So it's a consumable product

gets a repeat purchase rate.

355

: 00:16:17

wow.

356

: 00:16:18

Okay.

357

: 00:16:18

And so you can't sell a

low AOV consumable product.

358

: 00:16:21

If no one's going to

buy the product again.

359

: 00:16:23

Well, that also means

no one likes your shit.

360

: 00:16:25

Correct.

361

: 00:16:25

it's a fun thing to come and tell

your client, like, Hey, we're selling

362

: 00:16:28

this and nobody's coming back.

363

: 00:16:30

So, yeah.

364

: 00:16:31

And so if you're going to run on like

an LTV based business model where

365

: 00:16:34

you'd, shift your KPI to, CAC to LTV,

because you know, you're going to be

366

: 00:16:38

profitable on second, third purchase.

367

: 00:16:39

Yeah.

368

: 00:16:40

You need a 2nd, 3rd purchase, and

that is a baseline requirement.

369

: 00:16:43

And then, we had another client, and this

is really common, you probably have this

370

: 00:16:47

as well, where it's almost a retailer.

371

: 00:16:50

They have, they just stock other people's

products,: 1000

372

: 00:16:54

what ends up happening is.

373

: 00:16:56

We say, okay, we're at a 10, 15,

no, let's start scaling spend.

374

: 00:17:00

Oh, we can't, we have no cashflow.

375

: 00:17:01

where's your cashflow?

376

: 00:17:03

Oh, it's all stuck up in inventory.

377

: 00:17:04

And then you go, okay, well, let's,

give us an inventory export of all SKUs.

378

: 00:17:08

And let's have a look here.

379

: 00:17:09

And then you can start building out Excel

sheets to look at overstock and orders.

380

: 00:17:12

And you start to go, wait a second.

381

: 00:17:14

They're overstocked by

2 million in inventory.

382

: 00:17:17

And this is a 2 million brand.

383

: 00:17:19

so their revenue is their

inventory being held right now.

384

: 00:17:22

So as they're generating free

cash flow, it's just straight

385

: 00:17:24

into inventory and it's gone.

386

: 00:17:25

And so, once again, it's an operational

issue, not a marketing issue, is if they

387

: 00:17:29

could tighten up their buying and they

could craft offers around overstocked

388

: 00:17:33

products and get rid of them, and

even just cut down your SKU count.

389

: 00:17:37

Most of the time, you can cut 60

percent of your SKUs and you'll be fine.

390

: 00:17:42

It's Pareto's principle, 80

percent of revenue comes from

391

: 00:17:44

20 percent of the products.

392

: 00:17:45

So, there's all those considerations

that marketing agencies will,

393

: 00:17:50

will lose those three clients.

394

: 00:17:51

Every marketing agency will lose them.

395

: 00:17:53

unless you're a strong financial

operator and you understand operations

396

: 00:17:57

within businesses or specifically e

com or whoever you're working with.

397

: 00:18:01

Because or else, how do

you retain those clients?

398

: 00:18:03

Just within the silos of

Google and Facebook ads.

399

: 00:18:05

This is the funny thing about being

an agency owner is at a certain point,

400

: 00:18:09

I mean, it used to be, we just ran

the ads and then it was like, well,

401

: 00:18:11

run the ads and tell me the numbers.

402

: 00:18:13

And it was like, well, run the ads, tell

the numbers and dig into my operations.

403

: 00:18:16

had friend He goes, I'm looking

for a marketing agency.

404

: 00:18:18

Who's willing to run the ads

performance based and pay the ad spend.

405

: 00:18:24

And I'm like, All right,

dude, that, good for you.

406

: 00:18:26

he's got a well known brand and everybody

knows who he is, that only goes so far.

407

: 00:18:29

I'm like, I want that too.

408

: 00:18:30

A B at a certain point, I start

to wonder why do I need you?

409

: 00:18:33

And I don't know if you've ever felt

that way, but some of these brands

410

: 00:18:35

that I've worked with, I'm like, all

right, we did your top of funnel.

411

: 00:18:38

We did your lead acquisition.

412

: 00:18:39

We're now helping with your sales

and now we're going to dump into

413

: 00:18:42

your fulfillment at a certain point,

you're irrelevant to this process.

414

: 00:18:45

And I should just own your business.

415

: 00:18:46

And feel that could be the way that

good agencies go is we just start

416

: 00:18:52

opening up our own businesses and our

own brands because it's not worth the

417

: 00:18:55

lift of trying to bring these other

people with us, especially given

418

: 00:18:58

how inept they are at everything.

419

: 00:19:00

Hmm.

420

: 00:19:00

thought about acquisitions at Tom is.

421

: 00:19:03

with a lot of brands now, we're

at the extent where we just

422

: 00:19:05

run the whole company, right?

423

: 00:19:06

we're looking at overstock.

424

: 00:19:08

We're telling them, Hey, these

products are out of stock.

425

: 00:19:09

You need to change your buying cycles.

426

: 00:19:11

We're looking at contribution margin.

427

: 00:19:13

We have their whole P and L in

excels and we're monitoring OPEX.

428

: 00:19:17

And we're saying, Hey,

OPEX went up last month.

429

: 00:19:18

What did you do?

430

: 00:19:19

I went out for a nice dinner.

431

: 00:19:20

And we're like, Oh, well, don't think

we should count that within our numbers.

432

: 00:19:22

And I think we should back that out.

433

: 00:19:24

Right.

434

: 00:19:24

it is at the point where it's like,

why don't we just, what's left?

435

: 00:19:27

It's customer support.

436

: 00:19:29

And.

437

: 00:19:29

Product design.

438

: 00:19:30

figure that shit out on Fiverr?

439

: 00:19:32

Yeah, exactly.

440

: 00:19:35

Yeah, it's interesting, right?

441

: 00:19:36

Because, the best agencies

will move to that.

442

: 00:19:38

And then at that point, do you just

move away from being an agency and

443

: 00:19:41

just start becoming an incubator

of businesses and brands under you?

444

: 00:19:45

which actually sounds like a lot of fun.

445

: 00:19:46

That's maybe my little sad pathetic

dream is I'd love to have an

446

: 00:19:49

incubator after I made my exit.

447

: 00:19:51

That was kind of the plan is I'm just

going to go and build businesses.

448

: 00:19:54

So we'll see.

449

: 00:19:55

Maybe that's the new agency model.

450

: 00:19:56

Last words to you.

451

: 00:19:57

they might be a potential client

that could be an agency owner.

452

: 00:20:00

when I sold my business, I had 185 clients

and I have 130 now and we're phenomenal.

453

: 00:20:05

And when I do the analysis of who we've

lost, it's exactly what you're saying.

454

: 00:20:09

It's topic issues, fulfillment

issues, um, a lot of financial issues.

455

: 00:20:13

We've had a few clients

declare bankruptcy.

456

: 00:20:15

And yet, if you look outside,

everything seems to be fine, right?

457

: 00:20:18

Like all the pundits, all

the, usual suspects in terms

458

: 00:20:22

of the barometers look okay.

459

: 00:20:23

So I just think this is such a

strange black box that we're in.

460

: 00:20:27

Where do you see the next 18 months?

461

: 00:20:29

Good question.

462

: 00:20:30

I'll reiterate what you said, which is

that most brands are down year on year.

463

: 00:20:34

a few brands are up and doing well, I see

over the next 18 months, it's going to be

464

: 00:20:38

dark, probably for the next 6 to 12, with

all the things that we've talked about,

465

: 00:20:42

right, is that ad costs are going up.

466

: 00:20:44

So there's this huge squeeze

on most brands, and we're

467

: 00:20:47

Ecom focused on the agency.

468

: 00:20:50

That's why I'm always referencing

Ecom, but a lot of businesses

469

: 00:20:53

opened in Ecom during COVID.

470

: 00:20:55

And a lot of people didn't get to go

through tough times to learn all of the

471

: 00:21:00

core fundamental skills that it takes.

472

: 00:21:03

To maintain a business.

473

: 00:21:04

If you start a business during

a bull rally, what happens

474

: 00:21:06

when you go into the recession?

475

: 00:21:07

right.

476

: 00:21:08

And so all of these businesses are now,

everything's tightening up on the P and L.

477

: 00:21:13

And then all it takes is a few

lines to tighten and suddenly

478

: 00:21:16

you're negative cash flowing.

479

: 00:21:18

And you're going, what's going on?

480

: 00:21:19

And the worst thing you could do at this

moment, and this is going to sound bad,

481

: 00:21:22

probably coming from us as agency owners.

482

: 00:21:24

The worst thing you could do is turn

to your agency and just scream at them.

483

: 00:21:26

Because really the only thing that's

going to fix operational issues with

484

: 00:21:30

most of these brands is operational

issues is looking internally and

485

: 00:21:33

figuring out what's going on and then.

486

: 00:21:35

Ideally, yeah, you might want to look

for an agency that is better aligned

487

: 00:21:39

with high level business strategy and

is going to look in and consult and help

488

: 00:21:43

you outside of the accounts, but it's

really understanding numbers, number one.

489

: 00:21:48

and it sounds so obvious, but I'm sure you

talk to business owners every single day.

490

: 00:21:52

it would blow people's minds how

many businesses don't know what

491

: 00:21:56

their gross margin number is.

492

: 00:21:57

Yeah, I think that's the single

biggest need in the, space of

493

: 00:22:00

entrepreneurship is financial

services that actually distill the

494

: 00:22:04

information in a way that's actionable.

495

: 00:22:06

Here's your dashboard.

496

: 00:22:07

Green is good.

497

: 00:22:08

Red is bad.

498

: 00:22:09

You want it to be up to the right.

499

: 00:22:10

And if it's not, then we need

to start making decisions.

500

: 00:22:12

Nobody knows their per service

or per product margins.

501

: 00:22:16

Do you not know that information?

502

: 00:22:18

You know what I mean?

503

: 00:22:18

Like, how do you not know

what you make on what?

504

: 00:22:21

And, what's interesting too, is every

time I'm on the phone with somebody

505

: 00:22:23

who we land in this part of the

conversation, they know, they don't know.

506

: 00:22:28

You know what I mean?

507

: 00:22:28

It's not like a surprise.

508

: 00:22:29

They're like, no, no, I know, but on a

long enough timeline, we're making money.

509

: 00:22:33

So I guess it's okay.

510

: 00:22:33

And I think that's exactly

what you were speaking to.

511

: 00:22:36

The rising tide floats all ships.

512

: 00:22:37

Money was flowing.

513

: 00:22:38

You didn't need to be

sophisticated to make any money.

514

: 00:22:40

And so there's a lot of unsophisticated

people in the market and they're

515

: 00:22:43

getting annihilated right now.

516

: 00:22:45

And I'm watching them drop

like flies and, it'll taper.

517

: 00:22:49

And then, you know, what's really

interesting is, the market always

518

: 00:22:51

overcorrects cause that's just

the way the pendulum swings.

519

: 00:22:53

This is a lot of fun, man.

520

: 00:22:54

I really appreciate you hopping on.

521

: 00:22:55

I'd love to have you back again.

522

: 00:22:56

where can people find you?

523

: 00:22:58

We're going to link to your podcast.

524

: 00:22:59

If somebody wanted to work with

you, how would they reach out?

525

: 00:23:01

you could reach out through our

website, which is bluesensedigital.

526

: 00:23:05

com.

527

: 00:23:05

au or you can find me on LinkedIn.

528

: 00:23:07

Yeah.

529

: 00:23:08

We'll drop that in the

description and the show notes.

530

: 00:23:10

Do you just do agency services

or do you do consulting?

531

: 00:23:13

we do consulting as well.

532

: 00:23:15

Yeah.

533

: 00:23:15

Okay.

534

: 00:23:15

That's great.

535

: 00:23:16

Yeah.

536

: 00:23:16

that's awesome.

537

: 00:23:17

Nathan super appreciate you man.

538

: 00:23:18

High five if you're watching

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